Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Turtles and tortoises in popular culture


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Delete --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 20:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Turtles and tortoises in popular culture

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The trend with "in popular culture" topics, wittily captured by this former embedded list, is over the top and is now heading downhill. See Articles for deletion/Smilodon in popular culture, Articles for deletion/Dr. Strangelove in popular culture as well as several others just today. Punkmorten 23:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Caveat emptor This is just the first of several nominations for deletion made today by the same person, each about an item with "in popular culture" in the title, and each with the same boilerplate argument that "The trend with "in popular culture" topics, wittily captured by (citation omitted) this former embedded list], is over the top and is now heading downhill. See...Smilodon in popular culture...Dr. Strangelove in popular culture as well as several others just today."  There's an irony in this; in effect, the nominator has made his or her own list of unrelated topics linked only by a common phrase (in this case "...in popular culture") based on his own POV.  Some of the nominated articles probably should be deleted, but each should be judged on its own merits, rather than on the blanket "over-the-top-and-is-now-heading-downhill"
 * In addition, someone pointed out that one of this person's nominations (concerning the painting "Nighthawks" in popular culture) was debated only four days ago, which calls into question the good faith of the project. Mandsford 16:53, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


 * delete. delete immediately. Kripto 00:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, very little to salvage if anything. Popular culture articles should probably be salted. Ten Pound Hammer  • (((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps))) 00:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per above, maybe little stuff can be transferred to the proper articles but really there isn't a lot.--JForget 00:38, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Indiscriminate list of loosely related terms. Jay32183 00:43, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Pure trivia, indiscriminate list, and even original research. Useight 00:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete It is pointless/unmaintainable to make a list of every time someone mentions an animal. Delete as an unmaintainable list per WP:NOT Corpx 00:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I think the above all list perfectly valid reasons for this delete Q  T C 00:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per everyone. Popular culture articles are 99.999% of the time non-notable trivia about American television programs and movies. Every time someone cuts a fart it's entered under Farting in popular culture. (Please let that be a redlink.) -- Charlene 04:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Extremely Strong Keep.I was leaning towards delete...until I actually read the article. It is well-sourced, well organised, and encyclopedic. Honestly, go take a look. Don't just react automatically to the 'popular culture' in the title. Rhinoracer 12:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per proposal Overlistification Bulldog123 15:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep and Reality Check...As with Rhino, I would have voted delete on the basis of it being called "______ in popular culture", if I hadn't examined the article. This lone article is intelligent, encylopedic, well organized... from Aesop's fables and Akupara the to Yertle, Franklin and the TMNT.  Far more preferable to the hundreds that are on Wikipedia about individual episodes of TMNT; for example, The Big Brawl has its own article.  As noted above, this is the first of several nominations made by the same person today, possibly based on the assumption that all such articles are the same. Mandsford 16:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - this is another directory of loosely-associated topics. The items on this list have nothing in common past the inclusion of a turle or tortoise or, in some instances, the use of the word "turtle" or "tortoise" in a context that otherwise has nothing to do with the creatures. This list tells us nothing about turtles, the fiction which includes mention of them or the real world. Otto4711 17:30, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete What does the fictionalized portrayal of turtles tell us about turtles themselves? Nothing. This effectually is trivia and not meant to be housed here. GassyGuy 18:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - trivia on an encyclopedia. -- Anonymous Dissident  Talk 23:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I sympathize with both points of view expressed so far, it should be a hard call. But I want to say that if you do delete it, someone should transwiki it, like on encyclopedia dramatica.  This is some funny stuff. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 06:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep The fictionalized portrayal of turtles tells us about how humans perceive turtles. I've added a little to the mythology section and some images. If the article title is objectionable, perhaps a name change to something like Anthropomorphism of turtles, Turtles in mythology or Symbolism of turtles would be an improvement. There are plenty of sources out there for children's literature and mythology at least. Plus I'm in mourning for my terrapin :-( Bláthnaid  20:29, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * CommentI prefer to assume good faith, but really-- this nom was cut-and-pasted from a dozen similar noms made the same day by the same person. This was highly careless.

From the article, it is apparent that turtles/tortoises are still powerful memes/archetypes. That alone justifies the article. Rhinoracer 21:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; no different than the mass of others. Carlossuarez46 22:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 14:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete because this is a largely unreferenced article that fails to assert the notability of turtles and tortoises through the significant coverage of independent, secondary sources. Instead, this is a directory of loosely-associated topics that have been synthesized to create this muddled topic. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:13, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment The article now has four reliable sources. The opening paragraph is completely sourced and asserts that the turtle is a universal human symbol. A Dictionary of Symbols and Thematic Guide to World Mythology bring different uses of this symbol together, so I think that Wikipedia can too. A Dictionary of Symbols goes further, even bringing Moreau's Orpheus into the mix. Bláthnaid 15:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Every animal is a symbol of something in some culture, that doesnt mean we should be indexing every mention in a book/show/movie.  Corpx 15:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm against the tide on this, but anyway...Some more books that bring together different uses of this symbol/archetype are Dictionary of Nature Myths: Legends of the Earth, Sea, and Sky ISBN 0195136772 and The Complete Dictionary of Symbols ISBN 0811847675. A journal article . An essay on the turtle's role in art, literature and mythology  from ISBN 0894950819. The article doesn't mention every occurrence of a turtle in every book or movie, and context is provided. This article lets you contrast how the same animal is represented in different cultures eg China and Japan, which can't be done in the individual articles on a country's culture. I think it's interesting but YMMV.  Bláthnaid  16:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The list just lists a turtle and the tv show/book/comics that it appeared in. It doesnt tie how the appearance in the "popular culture" item have anything to do with what's mentioned in the intro paragraph.  Corpx 16:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's true for the first section of the article at the moment, I've been adding rather than taking away material with sources I could find quickly. If it's kept I think "...in culture" would be a better title. Bláthnaid  18:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The list is the textbook definition of a "list of loosely assosiated items".  The mentions about turtles on that page does not have anything in common except that they're turtles, which comes down to mentioning every time an animal is mentioned in a tv show/book.   Corpx 01:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.