Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Twelfth planet (disambiguation)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. and I don't think a 3rd relist is going to bring about one. Star  Mississippi  14:13, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Twelfth planet (disambiguation)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Is the Zecharia Sitchin book The 12th Planet or 12th Planet (musician) the primary topic? This page should be moved to the base title if there is no primary topic; otherwise, it can be deleted per WP:2DABS with one article having a hatnote to the other. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 02:46, 2 April 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:12, 9 April 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:47, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Astronomy-related deletion discussions. –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 02:46, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 02:46, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. We don't have an article on it (if we did the case would be clearer) but I suspect that Twelfth Planet Press may be notable, and unrelated to the other two. It appears to be an Australian small press mostly dealing with speculative fiction. It is mentioned in about 50 of our articles, in part because many of its publications have been nominated for notable awards. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:57, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Leaving the press aside for the moment, from the edit history of the article we have these candidates:
 * 12th Planet (musician) &mdash; This is obviously a valid candidate for a redirect.
 * Eris (dwarf planet) &mdash; This was never described as the twelfth planet, but was once tentatively the tenth planet, as recorded in many places including (for just one example) ISBN 9783319098944 page 49 (Springer, 2014). So this is not a valid candidate for a redirect.
 * The 12th Planet, Nibiru (Sitchin), and Nibiru (hypothetical planet) &mdash; These, twelfth planet,, and 12th Planet, currently all redirect to Zecharia Sitchin. Clearly the two "Nibiru" titles placed here should have properly gone at the Nibiru disambiguation (which has Sitchin), not here.  But the book title is a valid candidate for a redirect for a mis-spelling of its alternative title, The Twelfth Planet, which is also a redirect.
 * 5 Astraea &mdash; One can find reams of 19th century sources, from encyclopaedias to lectures by astromoners, describing 1 Ceres as the first minor planet, but no-one at that time calling it either the seventh planet or the eighth planet. This is similar.  By the time of its discovery the separation between major/primary and minor/secondary planets was widespread in reference works, and no-one called it the twelfth planet.  It's the fifth minor planet (per, one of many examples, "The Asteroid Question" in an 1891 issue of All the Year Round).  The only source that I can find supporting twelfth planet is a vastly anachronistic book published in 2014 by David A. Weintraub, an explanation that doesn't use the actual contemporary terminology.  So this is not a valid candidate for a redirect.  5 Astreae was never called this.
 * In addition:
 * Charon (moon) &mdash; There's actually a far better case for this as twelfth planet than there is for 5 Astreae. There are sources such as ISBN 9780387778051 page 248 (Springer, 2010) that do record its tentative identification as the twelfth planet, even if that never actually happened in the end.  But there aren't that many, and this is on the borderline of validity, I think, nudging from the side where it is not a valid candidate.
 * I'm inclined to think that this is equal weight between the musician and the book, and neither is really a primary topic. Search Google News, and the musician is by far the expectation.  Search Google Books and the pseudoscience is the expectation.  I'm not sure that we can weigh the one over the other.  They're both the most expected in their individual niches, but the only prioritization criterion between the twain is that the musician is at least real. Twelfth Planet Press being notable would solidly make the case for this disambiguation for me.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be.  There are lots of "About Twelfth Planet Press" blurbs in its own books, but little to nothing that I can find outside of that that documents it and could support an article on it.  So it's 2 things to disambiguate, and I'm inclined towards equal-weight personally, although I could compromise with having the musician as the primary topic if that's the consensus. Uncle G (talk) 07:10, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep and move to the base title per WP:NOPRIMARY: we have two topics, neither of which can clearly be called the primary, and two is enough. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 15:27, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Only two entries, make one the primary, and hatnote it. Stifle (talk) 16:12, 25 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.