Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Twin Rivers Multimedia Film Festival


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Asheville, North Carolina. (non-admin closure) Kraxler (talk) 18:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Twin Rivers Multimedia Film Festival

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Article apparently created to inflate the importance of crank films by Gary Null. The purported sources are directories and namechecks, there is no objective evidence of the significance of this subject. Guy (Help!) 16:35, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Untrue Guy/User Talk:JzG. Article was created as it sparked my interest in my building of an article about an award winning Gary Null film. Not for the reason you incorrectly have stated here. As a multi-media festival it intrigued me. If you look at some of my edits, article creations you'd see that I have connected articles to others with links and relationships. I do admit that I like doing that. If would take the time to look / admit, you'd acknowledge that the festival has been going for 22 years. Look (again?). The festival also gave 3rd place award to Journeyman that starred Matthew Montgomery and doubtless others. JzG/Guy, I would like to think that you're addressing this issue objectively but looking at your comments, relating to Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs where you say "non-notable crank film" and of course here where you say Article apparently created to inflate the importance of crank films by Gary Null.. Sometimes having a break, taking a breath and re-evaluating something without prejudice can make it a whole lot easier. Anyway something to have a think about. Thanks Mr Bill Truth (talk) 05:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

*Keep ~ It is a departure from the normal type of festivals. It is a multi-media film festival. It has also been going for 22 years. It has also exhibited films from Europe including one from director Martin Rath. Journeyman, which starred Matthew Montgomery got Third Place Feature at the festival. I'd say that news articles from Noth Carolina would give a good idea of what it's significance in the North Carolina state is. I say that with independent film festivals, we need to look more objectively. Mr Bill Truth (talk) 05:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC) Editor now indef-blocked for fringe advocacy
 * Jytdog (talk) 04:36, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It is a departure in the sense that there is no significant independent coverage, and it promotes crank films like the ones whose articles you write, supporting them with references to this "festival". Guy (Help!) 07:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No, not a "departure", as there are hundreds of similar multi-media festivals in the U.S. and elsewhere world-wide. What matters is coverage and this does have just enough despite its author.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 03:45, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- Eclipsed (talk) (email) 17:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. -- Eclipsed (talk) (email) 17:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions. -- Eclipsed (talk) (email) 17:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Non-notable and probably only created in an attempt to bolster the notability of Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs. ukexpat (talk) 13:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm generally pretty inclusive when it comes to events like film festivals, but WP:ORG still applies and it's seems clear to me that this is part of an extensive effort by the creator to promote fringe theorist Gary Null. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't think to check under alternate festival names, as I should have. I don't ascribe to the essay WP:LOCALINT, so my !vote is at the very least neutral, based on what Michael has turned up. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:15, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 *  Delete  per Shawn above. Doesn't meet WP:ORG; sources are directory listings or blogs, which is a bit surprising for an event reportedly in existence for 20 years.  Mini  apolis  01:40, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * A redirect as indicated below would work for me, given the festival's reported age.  Mini  apolis  12:45, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * AKA:


 * Keep for in looking at the festival's alternate title, I find it spoken of in multiple WP:NEWSBLOGS. IE: Asheville Citizen-Times et al, and just enough others to show it making it into the enduring record so as to meet WP:ORG. It is a pity that the article has a taint due to its author, but that does not dismiss minor notability per coverage just meeting WP:GNG... and sadly, had it been written by someone else we might not be at AFD at all.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 03:45, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:ORG Jytdog (talk) 04:37, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but WP:ORG is met though WP:CORPDEPTH and in paying attention to the instructions toward regional notability at WP:AUD. Yes, the article has issues, but guidelines tells us an organization is fine in speaking about itself if supported by a few reliable sources. Is it as notable as the Sundance Film Festival? No. But is it just notable enough? Yes.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 10:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry Michael Q those three links are a local (not regional) news story, and a link to google search and a link to google news; doesn't meet AUD. Jytdog (talk) 10:47, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I accept that some may chose to ignore the other regional news sources offered in my sharing a link, or ignore the books which show this as making it into the enduring record. Certainly a closing admin will note that and the fact that many of the deletes seem to be because of the author, and not the sourcability of the topic found with a refined search parameter. Thanks.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 18:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * nice rhetoric. local is local, and passing mentions have never been relevant to NOTABILITY and passing mentions are what your 2nd two links are full of.  You've got one source, in a local newspaper. Jytdog (talk) 19:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete for reasons already explained above. Non-notable, even in a regional context.  -Xcuref1endx (talk) 10:51, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * A closing admin may think authors concerns ntwithstanding, WP:AUD is satisfied, even if you or others personally do not, for AFD is not a count of heads, but a consideration of guideline and policy supported arguments. Thanks.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 18:28, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Lack of notability is not the only reason for deletion. Borderline notability combined with clear promotionalism is an equally good reason. Small variations to the notability standard either way do not fundamentally harm the encycopedia,but accepting articles that are part of a promotional campaign ccauses great damage. Once we become a vehicle for promotion, we're useless as an encycopedia .  DGG ( talk ) 21:43, 13 August 2015 (UTC
 * I couldn't agree more with DGG's rationale above.  Mini  apolis  23:16, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Redirect to a short sourced mention in Asheville, North Carolina where we have enough sourcing to merit a sensible neutral mention even if seen as lacking enough for a separate article. I have Struck my comments above. ?  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 06:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * ...and have added a sourced sentence there.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 06:33, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Asheville, North Carolina. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 06:09, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment I think the redirect suggested by MQS is a reasonable solution  DGG ( talk ) 18:30, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, as I feel this simple solution serves the project and its readers without doing anything to support the promotional intents of the blocked author.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 01:21, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:27, 14 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Redirect per Wikicology and MichaelQSchmidt. Pincrete (talk) 11:52, 15 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.