Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Two Steps Waltz (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Clear consensus, at this point.  DGG ( talk ) 01:26, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Two Steps Waltz
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  Stats )

Non notable and unreferenced long after creation Greenmaven (talk) 03:22, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 16:05, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 16:05, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:02, 14 May 2012 (UTC)




 * Keep - It's a stub, it's unsourced, it was ruled "not a hoax" by Ron Ritzman in the first AfD — in which, like this one, nobody participated. There seems to be no taste for deletion, nor any taste for working the Portuguese sources to flesh this out. So is Wikipedia better off with this or without this? The former, in my estimation. Carrite (talk) 15:44, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In the incredible-but-true department, 30+ years ago, when the world was young and I was in my late teens, I was a substitute drummer for a senior citizens' dance band called the Senior Rhythmaires. A terrible name for a really terrible band, but it was sort of hilariously entertaining in its way and I made 20 bucks a night for gas money for playing drums, so how bad could that be? The other three in the band were in their late 70s or 80s at the time and are by now long dead, so my presence no doubt made for a humorous existential visual... Anyway, point is, we played waltzes, foxtrots, polkas, and something called "two-steps," which were cut-time versions of foxtrots, which were played in a slow 4/4. I don't think that specific musical form has anything to do with this one — but there's nothing in WP about that either. Why? Up to now nobody knows, nobody cares... But it doesn't change the fact that there IS such a musical form or that it is something that a good encyclopedia should include. So I sort of feel the same way here. It's a bad article but a marker for future work needing to be done. Carrite (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for a perfect example of the sort of original research which has no place in WP. See WP:ORIGINAL. The line has to be drawn somewhere. --Greenmaven (talk) 05:38, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not following your logic — a stub article marking an actually existing Portuguese folk dance, as I presume this to be, isn't "original research," it's the utter lack of research, original or otherwise. It assumes the sources are out there, in the Portuguese literature. Carrite (talk) 17:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Nothing in Wikipedia"? We've had Country-western two-step since 2005.  How on Earth were you looking? Uncle G (talk) 15:53, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I saw that CW2S piece. I refer to the original 1920s, 1930s, 1940s "two-step" that I was telling the story about. Carrite (talk) 17:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Future work on what? I found literally zero sources in English or Portuguese. Google Books only turned up false positives in the form of "They had two-steps, waltz, etc. etc." Keep in mind I can read some Portuguese. Further searching with +Portugal showed only unreliable sources such as eHow, Facebook, Wikipedia mirrors and personal websites. It gets only 81 unique hits on Google. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:31, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Does not exist and no references could be found outside of Wikipedia and its mirrors. Yes, there is a "two-step" and yes, there is a waltz, but there is no two-step waltz—the waltz has three steps. This appears to be something made up one day. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 01:54, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It probably DOES exist but may well be misnamed here. Uncle G's diffs behind the writing of the piece (below) make it pretty clear that there's nothing here worth saving. One of these days I think I am going to write up a piece on the original Two-Step though. It was a distinct musical form for a generation, and there were some among them that stayed with "their music" to the grave... Carrite (talk) 17:37, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, → B  music  ian  03:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2012 May 21.  Snotbot   t &bull; c &raquo;  04:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The creator of this article created other articles on Portuguese folk dances, but those articles had their actual Portuguese names, such as Corridinho and Bailarico. This article doesn't, and there simply isn't enough information to identify which folk-dance that editor was intending to write about.  (Notice that .)  There's no way to determine how to fix this article, because there simply isn't enough context to even pinpoint the subject.  There's no Portuguese name, nor a location where this is danced.  Is Wikipedia better off with this or without this?  Without this, of course.  It's an unexpandable sub-stub without even the name of the subject to give it context, and it conveys zero information to the reader, since its description is general enough to match that of the Corridinho (q.v.).  Indeed, it is positively misleading the reader.  Uncle G (talk) 15:53, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Striking my Keep to clear the way for consensus. Carrite (talk) 17:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for striking your keep. Relating to your earlier comments: references do not have to be in English, but some experienced editors, with a knowledge of Portuguese, have been kind enough to do some research and can find nothing to support this article with its current name. Perhaps there is some dance out there that is meant, but this article is not connecting with it. Regards --Greenmaven (talk) 06:01, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.