Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/UE Extremenya


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep (non-admin closure), as per unanimous consensus. Ecoleetage (talk) 01:57, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

UE Extremenya

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Contested prod. This is a team that has played in the top league of an internationally (FIFA) recognized football (soccer) competition. However, it's a completely amateur competition in a country of about 70,000 people, which makes it the equivalent of the regional amateur competition in some medium sized city elsewhere. The team is listed in a number of statistical soccer pages, but has not received any individual attention, failing WP:NOTE completely, with only 114 distinct Google hits, and two Google News hits where they are only named in a list of teams. Some Andorran teams have at least played a preliminary round of European football (or even solely the Intertoto Cup), making their claims to notability a bit stronger. This team however has no notability at all. Fram (talk) 08:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Sorry, but I think that any football team that has played in a top division of a FIFA-affiliated country is article-worthy, regardless of how small the country is. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  11:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep per Nunber57 - a top division team in ANY country should be notable in my eyes. GiantSnowman 16:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? If said country is smaller than many cities, then why are the top division teams in such country notable, while regional teams with presumably a similar budget, audience, and history are not notable? A club in Andorra is similar, but a perfectly comparable club 20 km to the north or south (i.e. in France or Spain) isn't? That seems quite arbitrary... Fram (talk) 19:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but one could also argue that the players playing for the likes of Andorra/Liechtenstein are only as good as the players playing for clubs at level 10 of the English pyramid, but they are notable because they play international football. Similarly, these clubs play at the top level in a FIFA and UEFA-affiliated country and therefore are more notable than similar sized clubs in the same position who happen to be from larger countries. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  21:39, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep as having played in the top Andorran division. matt91486 (talk) 23:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with the assessment that a team that plays in the top division of any FIFA recognized country counts as article worthy. While the arguments about the small population and professionalism of the league aren't without merit, playing at the top level of a FIFA and UEFA affiliated country makes them notable enough for me.   Vickser (talk) 00:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Who are we to decide if a league is noteworthy enough? You cannot delete a team simply because its league is deemed too small or unimportant.  This team has played in the top flight of its respective countries league, hence it should be kept.  Where do you drwa the line?  What about Luxembourg?  Malta?  Cyprus?  Albania?  Who here is qualified to say that one league is acceptable but another in a slightly smaller/less noteworthy country isn't?  - Eddie  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.127.216 (talk) 11:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not aguing that the league as such is not noteworthy, I'm arguing that the team fails our global guideline WP:NOTE, which seems to be accepted for every possible subject but soccer teams as a basic minimum standard. This team has not received any serious attention from reliable sources (it is mentioned as one of the teams in the competition, or in a result, but no articles or even paragraphs about this team have been found in reliable independent sources). If the same could be said for Manchester Unied, I would suggest the deletion of that article as well. However, ManU has received some attention, just like most other top league teams, even in Luxemburg and so on. Being in the top league of a country with only two leagues is not really an achievement that is as such noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Fram (talk) 11:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, perhaps one should look in the Andorran Catalan-language press thoroughly before you definitively say that there has never been any coverage about this team in any reliable source. Systemic bias issues exist on here. matt91486 (talk) 13:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously (I later in that post stated that "no articles have been found", which is of course more correct), but local press is generally not accepted for other local teams or sportspeople (or every junior team or teenage talent would have an article based on the weekly newspapers from his town and so on). Fram (talk) 14:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean by local press. Obviously local papers that aren't very acceptable, like community papers, wouldn't work, but we certainly would allow the New York Times and New York Post etc. to be sources for New York based sports teams, so I'm not sure why we would not extend equivalent treatment to Andorran football clubs. matt91486 (talk) 16:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's hard to draw a strict line of course, but the professionalism and structure of e.g. the New York Times is not really comparable to that of a local Andorran newspaper. Anyay, this is a rather abstract discussion, as long as we dont have any sources to actually judge. Fram (talk) 07:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not going to search too hard, but they are mentioned in those two UEFA summaries of the Andorran league for starters, and, the second serves as a useful source for their promotion to the first division from the second. I know you found the same ones with your same search, but I'm just looking at them more positively, since the second is valid. I don't speak Catalan, so I can't do much with the Andorran based press. It's not terribly surprising that the league would have a smaller web presence, but the fact remains that the winners of the Andorran league get to go through qualification for the UEFA Cup.  And the players at Step 10 of the English system do not.  Therein lies the difference. matt91486 (talk) 14:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why I stated in my nomination that does who do play even one preliminary round of European football (even the intertoto cup, which is hardly receiving much interest) have a clearly stronger claim to notability. And we are indeed too lax with notability for professionals in some countries. But that is a different discussion. As for this one, it's a difference in standards (not better or worse, just more or less strict) where it may be hard to convince one another. Fram (talk) 15:16, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think you will find, incidentally, that Andorra's population is twice that of Liechtenstein, which has a club participating in UEFA Cup qualifying. ugen64 (talk) 16:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So? I know that Andorra has clubs participating in the preliminary rounds of Uefa and Intertoto. This club hasn't done anything of the sort. We don't keep articles because other articles are notable, even though that it was everyone here is arguing. Fram (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In fact, the Andorran league champion goes into the 1st qualifying round of the CL while the cup winner goes into the 1st qualifying round of the UEFA Cup. It's the same for every league ranked 25th (currently Slovakia) and lower, except Liechtenstein, I think because Vaduz participate in the Swiss league and are miles better than any club playing in the Liechtensteiner league. But anyway that's irrelevant, the point is that if a league is official enough that it has entrants in European competition, why aren't the clubs that have participated in that league themselves notable? Anyway I think you will find that last season, Andorra's European coefficient was identical to those of Albania and Northern Ireland (0.500 in each case), both of which are considered quite notable leagues if I recall correctly. ugen64 (talk) 21:58, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep not to sound repetitive, but any top division side in any national league is notable Ban  Ray  21:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.