Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/UFC on Fuel TV: Barao vs. McDonald


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Per lack of assertions as to the notability of the underlying even to overcome a claim of WP:CRYSTAL.  MBisanz  talk 03:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

UFC on Fuel TV: Barao vs. McDonald

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Crystal - anticipated event in Feb 2013, not currently notable No  unique  names  03:53, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 05:51, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - WP:CRYSTAL Does not apply, as it has been confirmed via multiple outlets. Including the UFC itself. For Official UFC Sources, See:, , , and for non-UFC media sources, see: , , Hooskerdo (talk) 06:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC) — Hooskerdo (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * The official sources aren't reliable and don't help with a notability claim. The unofficial are routine, superficial coverage.  The first unofficial supports a claim of CRYSTAL.  -- No  unique  names  10:57, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Per Hooskerdo and "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. Dates are not definite until the event actually takes place." Ok well the event is notable, a title is being fought for at this event. And it is almost certain to take place. JonnyBonesJones (talk) 07:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:CRYSTAL. Sources aren't particularly good. Can be recreated when and if proper sources become available.--Atlan (talk) 14:32, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep The debate over WP:CRYSTAL is completely overblown. In 221 UFC events, only one was cancelled. So far, more than 99.5% of the UFC events went ahead. The Olympic Games have a far worse record of cancelling events. We are so sure that an UFC event will happen, that when it doesn't, it becomes another reason for it to be seen as a notable event. Evenfiel (talk) 17:11, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment i have proposed a change to WP:MMAEVENT, if passed i believe it would greatly help in the constant debate over MMA event articles. you can view it here. Kevlar (talk) 17:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - WP:CRYSTAL does not apply here, as individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place (my bold). --LlamaAl (talk) 17:49, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The event isn't notable (yet, anyway). -- No  unique  names  11:32, 14 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - CRYSTAL doesn't apply and all previous keep rationale is sound
 * Keep Why do we have to go through this for every single UFC article? Hasteur and Mtking's actions clearly fall within WP:WITCHHUNT. They automatically AFD every single UFC article and receive several clear, intelligent, and compelling reasons as to why the article should not be deleted. Every single discussion like this one is overwhelmingly in favor of Keep. These users are abusing their powers and will not rest until every UFC article is removed from Wikipedia. As I have suggested before, if the goal of these people is truly to keep Wikipedia full of relevant, important information, then I strongly recommend that they remove themselves from this discussion entirely and ask another admin, one who is neutral and not on a WP:WITCHHUNT, to look at the reasons presented from both sides and make a decision that is in the best interests of both parties. Until that happens, Hasteur, Mtking, and others will continue to try and delete every UFC article, abuse their administrative powers, and silence the overwhelming majority that is in agreement that these articles should remain on Wikipedia. Courier00 (talk) 19:10, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * — Courier00 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Hasteur (talk) 21:37, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - Per WP:TOOSOON, there is no whitchhunting going on. The article is about a stub on an event that may never even happen. It is proper to wait. Even if it happens, there is no guarantee of notability. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 19:52, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment If I may, I'd like to propose the following t actions. 1. This AfD gets tabled. 2. The article gets merge/redirected to a 2012 in UFC events article (or something appropriate) while WikiProject MMA gets an opportunity to clean house and come up with a viable set of guidelines that are workable. Hasteur (talk) 20:10, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment If I may, I'd like to propose the following t actions. 1. This AfD gets tabled. 2. The article stays as it is, while WikiProject MMA gets an opportunity to clean house and come up with a viable set of guidelines that are workable. Evenfiel (talk) 20:30, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep Another UFC page trying to get deleted. This is getting tiresome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.214.85 (talk) 18:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC) — 68.44.214.85 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete Event fails the WP:NOT policy, specifically the Wikipedia is Not a Newspaper section, there is no attempt in the article to demonstrate with (or without for that mater) reiliable sources what the lasting effect and significance of this event will be. Of course it will get news coverage, it is after all a professional sports event, but to date it has all been routine coverage of the announcements which is not (according to policy) sufficient for a stand alone article. Mt  king (edits) 08:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. &#9733;&#9734;  DUCK IS PEANUTBUTTER &#9734;&#9733; 14:24, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Time for a new tactic. Argueing to keep this page is pointless because MtKing and Hasteur won't listen to reason. It's time for a new tactic. Contact the Real wikipedia staff at donate@wikimedia.org and let them know that you won't be donating 1 cent to wikipedia until all UFC pages are rightfully restored. Spread the word.119.225.96.189 (talk) 03:29, 17 December 2012 (UTC)htww — 119.225.96.189 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep I would argue that WP:CRYSTAL fails as an argument as the UFC has a track record of cancelling only one event ever out of 223 held. Does that mean that the chance of it being cancelled is impossible? No, it does not mean that. Is it dismissible? I would have to argue it absolutely is. If WP:CRYSTAL applies to this event then it applies to Super Bowl XLVII via the same logic. War could break out, or a strike could happen (a World Series was canceled once because of that, and more recently an entire NHL season), but the chances are of a dismissible nature, and should that happen the very fact it was dismissed would make it notable (now if the UFC starts canceling events on a regular basis, instead of once every 200+ times, that'd be different). Beansy (talk) 07:47, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:CRYSTAL is not about declining future events but preventing speculation. That speculation does extend to notability.  Will the UFC event happen (pretty sure), will it be notable in it's own right (not guaranteed).  I think the latter point is most important in this case since the event will be held within 2 months and the announced fights are pretty much set.  Will the event be notable?  I don't think so but wont fight over it.Peter Rehse (talk) 08:34, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Per open discussions with both camps currently going on on the WP:MMA talk page, I wouldn't be opposed to merging this article into an annual omnibus per se, but deleting it first would be quite counterproductive to the efforts to end the current drama. Beansy (talk) 12:39, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Keep As per reasons stated above in favour of the same outcome. Nothing more than the same users using the same failed reasons as to why UFC events are not notable. Would suggest that those users who disagree with these pages to be more productive than add a tag for deletion or vote to delete, such as help those who built up the page/s to beef it up to the point in which questioning notability will not exist. Very strong sources on this subject, and one could compare this sort of event to that of a WWE event, such Royal Rumble (2013), which was originally created on January 30, 2012, which is around a year before it happens, and was largely billed as The Rock's return match for the WWE title against CM Punk, which is unlikely to happen now due to the injury the champion recently suffered. Does this affect that events notability too? Does that mean that that event, just over a month away as well, should have a deletion tag on it because it clearly fails WP:CRYSTAL due to the high profile nature the event has received prior to the injury so plans are now scuffled for the event? Once you come to an answer for that then you have an answer for any events the UFC holds also. Pound4Pound (talk) 22:29, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Your initial statement is WP:PERNOM, which have had those rationalles shot out of the water above. The remainder of your rationalle is a WP:OTHERSTUFF argument using a WWE event to justify a outcome here. Hasteur (talk) 22:50, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * If these are such "failed" reasons, then why have so many articles been deleted because of them? Try to explain without using the keywords "Mtking", "evil deletionists" and "anti-MMA conspiracy".--Atlan (talk) 11:25, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep: why delete an upcoming event just to have to re-create it. How about people wanting to get rid of it, work on making it better. Willdawg111 (talk) 05:33, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge into an omnibus page, with the possiblity to split out later if the event ends up being notable. I agree with Peter Rehse's interpretation of WP:CRYSTAL in the sense that while it's evident this event will happen, it's not clear whether it will end up being notable or not. CaSJer (talk) 16:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * CommentOmnibuses were created and deleted already, by year, by month, by whatever, nothing worked.159.245.32.2 (talk) 17:15, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? Only one Omnibus was tried, and that was by year.  Want to come at this with clean hands and not 3rd or 4th hand hearsay? Hasteur (talk) 02:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep: Meets notability as per WP:SPORTSEVENT since a title is on the line ("Some games or series are inherently notable, including but not limited to the following: The final series (or single game when there is not a series) determining the champion of a top league"). 206.132.125.2 (talk) 01:28, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:SPORTSEVENT only applies IF there's only one championship a season. UFC doesn't have a definite season structure or a limit on the number of championship fights can occur in a time period (As evidenced by the title changing hands multiple times in a few months). Hasteur (talk) 02:19, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.