Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ultimate Spider-Man (story arcs) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus reached to delete, whether and what to merge is as always an editorial decision. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Ultimate Spider-Man (story arcs)
AfDs for this article: 
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Pure and simple: plot guide nonsense. While each summary is small, it's still a bit of fancruft/listcruft in my view. If people want to read about each individual issue: they can go to numerous other sites to find out information. Why exactly should Wikipedia have articles like this? The previous AFD for this: Articles for deletion/Ultimate Spider-Man (story arcs). There was some keeps, some merges and one delete. RobJ1981 20:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge Into Ultimate Spider-man Article - I say that because well I have seen thoese other sites and they have nothing on them, this could be used as the ultimate spider-man character history.Phoenix741 21:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong keep . I work hard at keeping this thing accurate and I think its one of the best articles on here.BlueShrek 23:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge to Ultimate Spider-Man - the information is already in Ultimate Spider-Man this seems like unnecessary duplication. (Emperor 23:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC))
 * If all the info is already on the ultimate spidy page, then Delete this one.
 * Well I haven't had a chance to do a complete comparison so there may be some information from here that could be salvaged. I could have voted for deletion but I wanted to leave the option open to whoever does the merge (if that is the outcome). I vote delete where there is nothing to be saved. (Emperor 00:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
 * Ok, makes sense.Phoenix741 15:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It isnt the story arcs page goes into WAY more detail.BlueShrek 00:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 *  Weak keep I think we can keep it as a structured list of USM story arcs.  It's structured chronologically, and should be a legitimate fork of Ultimate Spider-man.  Since "listcruft" isn't a guideline or policy, and there's no guideline or policy against having short plot summaries in lists, I'm not sure what the argument for deletion is here. -Chunky Rice 00:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The more I think about this, the clearer it is to me that there's no reason to delete this article at all. It's no different from any other list of serial fictional works.  -Chunky Rice 20:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge back to main, after trim. Wikipedia is not for plot summaries.  If they're too long, you're doing something wrong.  --Haemo 00:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge Way too much unencyclopedic info. Relevant content should be placed in the history section on the Ultimate Spider-Man page if it is not already present.  There may not be an anti-list cruft policy, but it is still a problem. --Daniel J. Leivick 00:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * What information, specifically, do you think is "unencylopedic?" I don't see it. -Chunky Rice 17:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The plot summaries (which make up the entire article) do not contain encyclopedic information, the article is little more than a big violation of WP:PLOT. Some of the important info should be merged into the history section on the main article, the rest should be deleted. --Daniel J. Leivick 19:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Brief plot summaries are explicitly permitted by that policy and the relevant guideline. The summaries here are fairly brief for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't object to trimming down some of the longer ones.  This article, is in essence a list, with plot summaries.  Not one large plot summary.  -Chunky Rice 20:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree, Ultimate Spider-Man has a plot and this is a overly long summary of it, I realize there are individual story arcs, but they are all part of a larger story that should be summarized succinctly on the main page. --Daniel J. Leivick 20:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How is that different from any serial fiction? We have scads of lists of television episodes.  Many of those are part of serial storylines.  How is this different, in concept, from featured list,List of Lost episodes?  -Chunky Rice 20:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that the list episodes pages should probably go too but I don't have the energy to fight for it. --Daniel J. Leivick 20:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think we should be deleting things that have attained "featured" status, then I guess there's not much more to say. -Chunky Rice 20:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually on closer inspection of the issues involved I think you are probably right there isn't too much difference between this article and the featured Lost list. I might have to change my vote. --Daniel J. Leivick 21:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a very good point. I have worked on similar lists of TV episodes and stated that I consider a mini-series/limited series to be the equivalent of a TV episode and the logic conclusion of this is that a "List of Ultimate Spider-Man story arcs." (as proposed on the talk page) would make sense. So I am prepared to change my vote to keep but my concerns above still stand - the Ultimate Spider-Man entry (and the other Ultimate entries mentioned) have very detailled plot breakdowns almost identical to this one and I don't want two sets of the same data. However, this solution could fix the problems I see with a lot of the Ultimates entries in that they are too long already and break tend to break the plot down into a paragraph or two on story arcs which is a bad thing. If we keep and rename the story arc entries it is on the understanding that the main entries are heavily pruned back and instead of breaking down the story arcs they give a brief overview of the plot (referencing the primary sources where need be so instead of "Ulimate Spider-Man #6-10 in this we see...." we get "and Spider-Man said 'something'(ref)Ultimate Spider-Man #8(/ref)" or something like that). This will set a precedent and give people a lot of headaches and I could see quite a few people being unhappy about this but I can't fault the reasoning and with a refocus and a heavy edit on the main entry it can be classified as a legitimate content fork. It'd need a consensus though on the heavy pruning or we end up with an ever worsening mess and I'm not going to be caught voting for that. Balls in your court. (Emperor 02:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC))


 * Keep the main article is big enough already, and given the strong notability of the series I think an article covering the major story arcs is reasonable. A merge would either lengthen the article to immense proportions or result in valuable information being lost. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  16:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.