Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uncrowned


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete both. The consensus is that Andrad has no notability apart from the band, so the decision to delete the article about him seems clear. Consensus also favors the deletion of the band's article, but I will userfy it on request if anyone wants to work on it or thinks that better, independent sources may become available in the future. Deor (talk) 15:04, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Uncrowned

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Articles about a band and its lead guitarist, neither of which have any strong claim to passing WP:NMUSIC. Both articles are written far more like advertorial public relations profiles than encyclopedia articles, Andrad's BLP is completely unsourced and the band article is sourced only to dead links. As always, Wikipedia is not a free public relations platform on which a band or its individual members are entitled to Wikipedia articles just because they exist — reliable source coverage, attesting that they meet one or more of our notability criteria, must be present to support the article, but neither of these has that at all. Colour me not surprised, as well, that the band article (which has been around for a while) has been edited by User:UNCROWNED, while Andrad's article (a new creation within the past week) was created by User:Jackandrad — insert reference to our conflict of interest rules against WP:AUTOBIOs here. Delete. Bearcat (talk) 03:19, 21 February 2016 (UTC) http://www.spin.com/2014/02/art-of-hustle-uncrowned-sxsw-2007-charles-aaron/ Another example from the official Gibson guitars website: http://archive.gibson.com/absolutenm/templates/FeatureTemplate.aspx?articleid=338 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.98.157 (talk) 05:19, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There are several links from outside sources to support this band and the musicians in it, here is an example from the official Spin magazine website
 * The "official Gibson guitars" website does not represent media coverage about them — it's a Q&A interview on the website of a directly affiliated company, which means it cannot support notability. The Spin article is good, but one good article about a band is not enough to get them into Wikipedia by itself if it's the only acceptable source — we require several articles of that caliber before a band gets in here, not just one. Reliable sourcing for a Wikipedia article is not "any website at all that supports the content, even if it's just the band's own self-published website" — it's real media (newspapers, magazines, books, etc.) which are fully independent of the topic, and nothing else. Bearcat (talk) 17:51, 23 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  /wiae   /tlk  03:45, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions.  /wiae   /tlk  03:45, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Some links have been updated, the page is informative about the band. Do not delete The Page about Jack Andrad also has substantiated links and information about the person. Dot not delete.
 * Delete as I found nothing better convincing than one link at Blabbermouth. SwisterTwister   talk  06:57, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither a band nor a musician is entitled to have a Wikipedia article just because their own self-published website verifies that they exist — either class of topic must be the subject of reliable source coverage in media to earn a Wikipedia article. Neither article, however, contains any sourcing but their own website and their record label's website, and that's not the kind of sourcing it takes to get a band in here. Bearcat (talk) 02:38, 23 February 2016 (UTC

Here are 4 more articles from different websites on the band:

http://tourbusmusicshow.com/2012/10/16/the-tour-bus-music-show-episode36-an-interview-and-music-with-jack-andrad-from-uncrowned/

http://msbrandyrock.blogspot.com/2011/01/jack-andrad-uncrowned-random-questions.html

http://musicincider.com/index.php?action=interview&sub=article&id=601

http://www.musicincider.com/index.php?action=interview&sub=article&id=262
 * Blogspot blogs and podcasts don't count as reliable sources. As I already pointed out above, reliable sources are things like newspapers, magazines, books — not just any website at all that you can find that supports the content you want to source. And none of these links meet the criteria necessary to be considered a reliable source. Bearcat (talk) 22:01, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Below are 10 more links with uncrowned including actual print magazine publications and more related to uncrowned and the American Music Awards, CMJ and Dick Clark and more. http://www.redrocker.com/news/atlantas-uncrowned-wins-national-rock-competition

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/atlanta-s-uncrowned-wins-national-rock-competition/

http://525powertracks.com/Featured-Band/Uncrowned.htm

http://www.idolator.com/269234/rock-critically-correct-spin-parties-like-a-rock-star

http://clatl.com/atlanta/the-venue-closing-blues/Content?oid=1262383

From Amarican Music Awards: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/and-then-there-were-10the-american-music-awardsr-presents-the-coca-cola-new-music-award-semi-finalists-70984727.html http://hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=276829

http://www.atlantamusicguide.com/newsletter_06032005.htm

From the Creative Loafing (Atlanta Print publication) http://clatl.com/atlanta/locals/Content?oid=1236706

http://www.mi2n.com/print.php3?id=42590

https://books.google.com/books?id=atUYm-gM0KEC&pg=PT9&lpg=PT9&dq=uncrowned+%22dick+clark%22&source=bl&ots=_xMpYOyhDO&sig=RnR5xvAoDSRNb02z_uINFqkmDME&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFodHghY_LAhVBPCYKHa_7AMkQ6AEIPjAJ#v=onepage&q=uncrowned%20%22dick%20clark%22&f=false

http://newmusiclab.blogspot.com/2006/01/headbangers-lab-jan8th-2006.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.177.186.9 (talk) 00:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC) Article on World News: http://article.wn.com/view/2011/03/18/Uncrowned_Guitarist_Jack_Andrad_You_Have_to_Think_of_This_as/ FMQB hits article on radio song additions: http://www.fmqb.com/article.asp?id=491759 More online content here: http://hardrockhideout.com/2009/07/page/3/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.177.186.9 (talk) 00:29, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You're not getting how this works. Those are almost all still blogs and press releases, and the only one that is neither of those things is a news aggregator picking up a blurb from a user-generated content site to which anybody can submit any "news" they want — which means it's not a real or notability-conferring media outlet. So you still have not shown a single reliable source besides the one that we already had. Read again what I said about what counts as a reliable source and what doesn't — because if you keep throwing more unreliable sources at this discussion, you're going to be running a very real risk of getting editblocked for being disruptive. If you want to save the articles, you need to find good sourcing — which is, again, not the same thing as "any page at all that you can find on the web with their names in it". Bearcat (talk) 01:15, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:08, 29 February 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Note that two articles are nominated for deletion here, Uncrowned and Jack Andrad.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:20, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete both. The Spin article is good, but that seems to be the extent of the in-depth coverage they got in reliable sources.  The remainder are blogs and trivial mentions.  I don't see how Andrad has notability independent of the band.  If the band's article is kept, then we can redirect Andrad's article to it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:47, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep and do not Delete both. Seems to me there's enough content to let the pages be, based on the links I saw above.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.177.187.205 (talk) 19:38, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Exactly zero of the links listed above represent reliable source coverage — they're all blogs and/or primary sources. Bearcat (talk) 16:17, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Weak keep for the band, and only if so, redirect Andrad to the band's article. The Spin article is indeed nice, but the whole, er, "spin" of it militates against a finding of notability on close reading.  In no event do I see independent notability for Mr. Andrad, particularly versus any other member of the band.  I suspect the IPs monitoring/commenting on this discussion have connections to the band; I wish the band well even if they fall short of Wikipedia's notability guidelines and urge their proponents to channel their marketing energy elsewhere in hopes of helping the band gain that notability, rather than discrediting its credibility through misguided self-advocacy.  Julietdeltalima   (talk)  19:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. Fails WP:N and WP:GNG. MrWooHoo (talk) 21:28, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in reliable sources.  The article summary notes: "Uncrowned have a slick sound, endorsement deals, a potential monster hit, and major-label dreams. Charles Aaron pounds the pavement with rock's hungriest unsigned band to find out why talent and determination may no longer be enough. Photographs by Misty Keasler." Here is a quote from the first page: "'I'd rather drag my penis through ten miles of gravel than be here,' says Stephen Bazzell, lead singer of the unsigned Atlanta modern-rock band Uncrowned. He slumps down in a plush chair, scowling from beneath a baseball cap pulled tight over a red do-rag. Bazzell and his bandmates are killing time while their manager, Bret Bassi, is on a sofa across the way chatting with a (seemingly sloshed) publishing exec from Universal Records and a certain songwriter-for-hire. 'It's some guy who helped develop a band I fucking hate,' spits Bazzell. He won't elaborate, but later I discover it's the mastermind behind the Oklahoma band Hinder, the most commercially successful new rock act of the past year. Hinder's shtick as a sleazier Nickelback is pretty crass, but they did record the most undeniable power ballad of 2006, 'Lips of an Angel' (also a country hit for Jack Ingram), cowritten by the man on the sofa, Brian Howes. Uncrowned, who are in the midst of recording songs they hope will lead to a major-label deal, have already met with a couple of cowriters—most notably Lee Miles, who worked on one of last year's surprise rock breakthroughs, the debut album by emo-ish Florida pretty boys the Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, and who recently toiled on the latest for the neo-grunge lifers Puddle of Mudd. But as the members of Uncrowned gain more faith in their own abilities, they feel increasingly uneasy about the cowriting gambit, a driving force behind mof of today's rock hits than anyone cares to admit. They're trying to forge their own sound, but they also want to succeed, or least make a living as a band, especially since Bazzell and headstrong guitarist Jack Andrad have been writing music together since 2001 and touring the Southeast with different lineups since 2003."  The article notes: "Last Thursday, three bands slugged it out for 30 minutes each. Uncrowned, a band that road-tripped from Atlanta to participate, came out on top after battling Before 9, a Lucedale band, and Waiting for Brantley, which hails from Laurel. Uncrowned will now compete in the regional finals on July 29, in the hopes of eventually reaching the national finals."  The article notes: "Uncrowned Jack Andrad, guitarist for this Atlanta 'modern edge rock' band, says he chose his life path after seeing a Judas Priest concert at age 12 or 13. This led to lots of hard rockin' and hard livin' - once in Mexico Andrad took beer-chugging lessons from Nickelback's Chad Koeger. But he and his band stayed sober long enough to win a Hard Rock Cafvìé band competition in 2004. Uncrowned makes aggressive metalesque music a la Linkin Park and Velvet Revolver." There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Uncrowned to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 00:17, 20 March 2016 (UTC)</ul>
 * Merge/redirect the Jack Andrad to Uncrowned. Cunard (talk) 00:17, 20 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete The extent of the in-depth coverage are not from reliable sources. Majority of them are tabloids, which cannot be considered fully independent.Nik.gourley (talk) 18:45, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - not enough in-depth coverage, of a non-primary nature, in independent reliable sources to show they pass WP:GNG.  Onel 5969  <i style="color:blue">TT me</i> 12:17, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete on Uncrowned. The Spin article is actually an article about how hard it is in the music industry right now. The writer's editor likely said, "Go find a talented but unknown band and tell their story as a way to illustrate and put a human face on what's going on in the biz right now." I'm not sure that can be used to prove notability. On Andrad, definitely delete, or if we keep Uncrowned, merge. valereee (talk) 13:13, 22 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.