Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Under the Lights at the Big House


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:08, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Under the Lights at the Big House
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WikiProject College football has a long-standing policy that stand-alone articles for regular season college football games should exist only in cases where the game was of great significance to the history of college football. This doesn't cut it. This game is already well covered at 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team. Any additional worthy content here should be moved there and to 2011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:19, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge to Michigan–Notre Dame football rivalry and/or 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team and 2011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team. Please note that Wikiprojects, including the College Football Wikiproject, do not enact Wikipedia policies on their own accord as is suggested by the nominating editor, and as such, citing a Wikiproject "policy" is not a legitimate rationale for nominating this article for deletion, particularly since any one article can fall within the dominion of multiple Wikiprojects. The Notability of this nominated article should be judged on its own accord by exising Wikipedia-wide policies and guidelines. That said, I believe this article does not meet notability guidelines as the sourced citations in the article represent  no more than routine coverage of a sports per WP:EVENT. CrazyPaco (talk) 04:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Historic game. First night game at the largest football stadium in the country. Game is still being referenced with sequels.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:01, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - the historic aspect as described by TTT is more convincing in this case; it has significance to the stadium, for one. Ansh666 06:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: If it is important to the stadium, merge with Michigan Stadium. It isn't significant on its own as a first. It isn't the first game played under lights in college football. Each large or historic stadium's first night game does not warrant an article. CrazyPaco (talk) 08:22, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Merge - Fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:ROUTINE. The information in this article should be merged into one or more of Michigan Stadium, Michigan Wolverines football, Michigan–Notre Dame football rivalry, and/or 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team. -Jhortman (talk) 13:13, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:26, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Merge as above. The "first night game at Michigan Stadium" is not so significant, as night games have been played in professional sports for, what, 80 years? College football routinely has night games. So Michigan was tardy to the party, that doesn't rise to the level of notability beyond WP:ROUTINE. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge to Michigan–Notre Dame football rivalry, 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team and 2011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team. A game being at night doesn't make it notable, especially since there have been hundreds (thousands?) of college football night games already. — X96lee15 (talk) 14:49, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep I guess I'm funny that way. Certainly there has been enough coverage to more than surpass WP:GNG and that's always been a good rule of thumb.  I think the name of the article is hideous, but that's all editing issues to be handled later.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:03, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge to Michigan–Notre Dame football rivalry and/or 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team and 2011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team. --GrapedApe (talk) 21:59, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment. The supposed "policy" limiting stand-alone articles to games "of great significance to the history of college football" seems arbitrary. Who decides which games fit that bill?  Isn't that completely subjective?  We are approaching 100 articles in the Category for "College football games".  Do articles like 2001 Michigan-Michigan State, 2005 Texas/Texas A&M, 1994 Fla./Fla. St., 2007 Trinity vs. Millsaps really pass that test?  While I generally favor covering individual games in team/season articles, and do not wish to see a proliferation of individual game articles based on routine game coverage, I think WP:GNG should be the guide rather than "great significance to the history of college football." Cbl62 (talk) 17:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Cbl62, this is a good point. I don't know that this policy/supposed "policy"/prevailing standard (?) is arbitrary, but it may indeed be subjective.  I wonder though about WP:GNG being the guide.  Reading WP:GNG, it seems like just about every single Michigan-Ohio State game in recent years would pass GNG. There's always a ton of media building up the game and plenty of coverage of it after. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:13, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. For example, I don't believe all the FBS bowl games are notable. Probably only a handful each year are actually notable. — X96lee15 (talk) 03:36, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That's my point. Efforts to create black and white rules (bowl games are notable and regular season games are not) leads to absurd results.  Does anyone actually believe that the 2012 Famous Idaho Potato Bowl is even close to being as notable as Under the Lights at the Big House?  I'd venture to see that the news coverage of those two games was 1,000 to 1 in favor or "Under the Lights".  This is just one example of why WP:GNG needs to be the guiding principle. Cbl62 (talk)


 * Merge to 2011 Michigan Wolverines football team. Take a look at some of the other individual college football games that have their own individual Wikipedia article. The First Game, App St.–Michigan, First TV Game, Cumberland–Georgia Tech, "The Play." All of them extremely important, significant, and iconic moments in the history of college football, not just in the history of one individual program or stadium. If this were the first college football night game ever played, I would be willing to accept it as it's own individual article. But, it's not, and it's not even close. I would also add that if the results of the game itself are judged to be extremely important in the context of the Michigan–Notre Dame rivalry, a merge to Michigan–Notre Dame football rivalry could also be in order. But, do we really need a new Wikipedia article written every time a night game is played at Michigan Stadium? Ejgreen77 (talk) 17:42, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge this should be included either in the Michigan Wolverines football page or the rivaly page. Tedmoseby (talk) 05:47, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge. This is just a name for a (brief) subset of games within a larger rivalry.  JohnInDC (talk) 20:13, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.