Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Underground Cafe and Alternative Bookstore (second nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 13:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Underground Cafe and Alternative Bookstore

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Article does not claim notability and does not cite any sources. Google yields only 49 results, none of which appear to be reliable, thus a verifiable article cannot be written.

The article has been a battleground between User:TakingYourselfTooSeriously who has been introducing the unsourced "controversy" section and an anonymous editor removing it; both admit to having been/being part of the organization, thus having a conflict of interest. TakingYourselfTooSeriously also insists that the original author has a conflict of interest.

Given the lack of reliable sources and the edit wars on this article, I feel that it is best deleted. -- intgr 18:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment: Virgin_Molotov_Cocktail and ChrisErb were also a part of the cafe. This violates COI. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TakingYourselfTooSeriously (talk • contribs).


 * Delete - an edit-war is a content dispute, and as such is not valid grounds for deletion. However, there does not appear to be any reliable sources to establish notability.  There appears to be some claim to local notability in some of the keep arguments from the previous AFD that resulted in "no consensus", but again, I can't find any sources to even establish that. -- Whpq 20:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * weak keep because there should be sources. It seems notable enough to keep trying. DGG 06:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * &emsp; Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached  &emsp; Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mailer Diablo 08:16, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep - over 600 Ghits excluding mirrors; whilst some of these just list it as a venue, there are enough that actually discuss it to convince me that it's a focal point of the Canadian hard-left scene & warrants its own page. Two of the three reasons given by the nom (WP:COI and edit wars) are invalid reasons for nomination, and the third (lack of attribution) seems easily addressed. -  irides centi   (talk to me!)  11:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: The count on the first page of search results is wrong since it also includes duplicate mentions on a single web site. If you click on the last page of results, you can see that there are only 38 results. The only reason why I mentioned the content dispute was to add weight to the argument &mdash; we cannot have a neutral article without any sources and an army of editors with a conflict of interest, so that it is bound to be either a battleground or a biased non-verifiable mess. -- intgr 12:16, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * delete single shops are rarely noteable and no reliable sources showing this one is.Geni 12:53, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete: Fails WP:V, WP:CORP/WP:ORG. Even 600 G-hits would be, in fact, pretty damn low, but intgr is correct; 38 unique hits - most of which are Wikipedia mirrors and their own releases - is pathetically low, and has zero reliable sources.  The group's own webpage states that the project has failed and more sources are not likely to appear.    RGTraynor  17:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * In light of the above, changing to Delete. You're right - on close reading of that website it appears it's actually some kind of local music venue with a peculiar name and a nice line in self promotion, and not the Canadian equivalent of City Lights they publicise themselves as -  irides centi   (talk to me!)  18:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Besides which, heck, I've been in Fredericton. It's a freaking small city, and if it wasn't the provincial capital and the site of the University of New Brunswick there'd be 57 people there.  The kind of local club worthy of Wikipedia articles are like Club Passim, in which the likes of Bob Dylan and Tracy Chapman fought to play, and Bruce Springsteen tried and failed to play.  Fredericton's not a place likely to generate an indie venue of that degree of notability.    RGTraynor  18:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Delete Eusebeus 11:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep Potentially useful. --Remi 19:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please see WP:USEFUL. -- intgr 21:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.