Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/United Festivals


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The arguments that significant coverage of the festival outweigh the keep !vote(s); pending the outcome of Articles for deletion/Werner Raffetseder (2nd nomination) may redirect to Werner Raffetseder. J04n(talk page) 14:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

United Festivals

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Unsourced WP:PROMO by, who's very likely Werner Raffetseder (United Festivals founder) himself, see Articles for deletion/Werner Raffetseder. is a single purpose account who does nothing but spread the United Festivals link all over Wikipedia (see contribs). I don't see any notability for this "festival". bender235 (talk) 00:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. In his prize winning multimedia works about the garbage people of Manila and numerous corresponding activities (print reportages, radio and TV interviews, humanitarian project) Mr. Raffetseder has pointed out serious social problems. According to recent media reporting, in the past 10 years he has focussed on our endangered living cultural heritage and done vast field work worldwide. His latest initiative seems equally important and should not be concealed. --81.10.146.221 (talk) 02:30, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you please name your sources? Where are these "print reportages, radio and TV interviews"? --bender235 (talk) 05:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, Raffetseder appeared in Austrian TV, ORF channel 2, on 31st January and 1st February 2011 (replay) being interviewed about variations of living cultural heritage and pictures of the UNITED FESTIVALS world archive being shown, as indicated in subline. The interview was given in the documentary film “Unter die Haut: Körper . Formen . Kunst” ("Under the Skin: Bodies . Form . Art") by renowned Austrian artist and filmmaker Gerald Teufel, who has several times co-produced with the interviewee before his time out of country. Raffetseder’s 10 years of field work abroad may be responsible for his minor internet presence, even though his latest 1-hour radio interview given on 5 Feb 2011, 14.00-15.00, mostly dealing with contents of the UNITED FESTIVALS initiative, is to be found online: Radio Orange94.0 (scroll and click loudspeaker symbol). Raffetseder’s latest print reportage “G’standene Mander”, also displaying living cultural heritage, with a short description of UNITED FESTIVALS main goal, was published in the Feb 2011-edition of the SERVUS-magazine (pages 88-96), a brand-new monthly released since December 2010 by Dietrich Mateschitz’s Red Bull Media House. Print copies available there, film copy at ORF. --81.10.146.221 (talk) 17:29, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * So all we have are some radio interviews, and a short article in a Red Bull corporate magazine. That is very little. I still don't see any notability. --bender235 (talk) 18:44, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, to be accurate, within less than a month, we have one TV interview, one 60 minutes radio interview and one 9 pages colourful print reportage (2-4 pages is average here) in a high-circulation and top magazine, which is incidentially owned by Red Bull, but accrding to editorial, has been created to promote traditional cultures in the Alps-Adriatic Sea-area (Bavaria, Austria, South Tyrol, Italy). I think that’s pretty notable if we consider that these people have just completed vast field works to launch their campaign as a contribution to safeguard intangible cultural heritage. I am curious what's coming next. --81.10.146.221 (talk) 04:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's put things in perspective: Radio Orange 94.0 is a small Vienna community radio. SERVUS is a corporate magazine by Red Bull with a circulation of barely 50,000 copies. And then there's the short appearance in this documentary on tattoo artists (BTW: is each of the artist in that documentary worth of a Wikipedia article now?). How in the world is that supposed to merit a Wikipedia entry? --bender235 (talk) 17:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, bender235. Sorry for the confusion. I am no sock puppet: you advised me to create an account and I did; that’s all. To put things further in perspective: 1) Radio Orange 94.0 is a local Vienna radio AND a well known meeting place of top Austrian people. Beyond Raffetseder let me just mention the film directors Michael Glawogger (Workingman’s Death, Megacities) and Oscar nominated Götz Spielmann who also showed up there for interviews. 2) With the SERVUS magazine, Red Bull has launched a top seller: 50.000 copies of the already popular magazine (that is indeed owned by Red Bull but has an independent editorial staff in Vienna, far from Fuschl, where Mr. Matschitz bottles the drinks) were planned for the first edition, now – 4 editions later – must be double or even more. Anyway, 50.000 copies sold in Austria correspond to about 400.000 sold in UK: isn‘t that something? 3) For most of the tattooed and pierced people who made statements about how and why in Gerald Teufel‘s ducumentary film, this was probably their very first time on air. For Raffetseder, after countless radio and TV interviews in so many different stations, this is routine. And you may have noticed: Raffetseder did not face the camera to show off tattoos or piercings, but as the founder of United Festivals (that will most hopefully not be deleted!) and as an expert to talk about special forms of body modification practised among South East Asian tribeswomen and during a Hindu festival, with significant pictures of the United Festivals world archive being shown. And by the way, Raffetseder's comments were far from blah-blah: both issues made their way into the English Wikipedia (please, see lemmata: „Kayan Lahwi“ and „Thaipusam“). --VuestraMerced (talk) 14:59, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep or Merge with Werner Raffetseder. Adequate references and notability. There are adequate publications and television appearances concerning the subject.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 10:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There are no "adequate references" in this article. Not a single one of the references in the article even mentions "United Festival". --bender235 (talk) 13:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you noticed that the 'reference' added by Nipsonanomhmata seems to cite from this very article? Drmies (talk) 22:13, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added more than one reference. Please be specific. By the way, the Werner Raffetseder article has survived AfD. Therefore the founder and organiser of this festival is considered to be adequately notable for Wikipedia.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 10:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually it did not "survive" the AfD. Raffetseder was just able organize some WP:MEAT. There's a second AfD ongoing. --bender235 (talk) 10:50, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * An unsubstantiated allegation.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 13:16, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Reinforce my Keep. Hi. Yesterday, Sunday, March 6, Gerald Teufel's documentary was also shown in 3sat, broadcast "lebensart", between 0.35 and 1.35. So, in the meantime, United Festivals has crossed borders and appeared in Germany and Switzerland as well.

Moreover, to demonstrate the relevance of the founder of United Festivals, I promised at 15:39, 4 March 2011, to find out some mention about Raffetseder in notable German language papers, NOT written BY the discussed multimedia artist but written by others ABOUT him and his published works. And there is very much evidence of Raffetseder's notability to be found in libraries. Here are only a few (translated) examples arranged in chronological order. The library allows to scan and upload or send all this printed matter. I'll do if you need one or the other article in German original language. ORF Vienna maybe contacted day and night, from abroad under 0043-1-87878-0, also for issues concerning 3sat.

26 March 1995, Martin Himmelbauer in Kurier “Awarded: Photographic Report about Life in Rubbish. Guest of the Rubbish People. -- Eight Months An Austrian Spent With the Poorest of the Poor: About 30.000 Who Live on A Giant Rubbish Mountain on the Fringes of Manila.” (1 page, text and 2 pics).

07 May 1995: Theodor Scheffl in Wiener Zeitung “Life in Rubbish: About A Photographic Project of Werner Raffetseder” (1 page, text and 5 pics)

31 March 1996: Trude Sagmeister in Kronenzeitung „I lived with the Rubbish People. -- Babies Play with Rubbish, Old People Die in It, Men Collect It And Women Cook Dead Dogs. The World of the Rubbish People of Manila Is A Foul-Smelling Cesspool. Werner Raffetseder Has Put on Record the Unimaginable.” (2 pages, text and 5 pics).

02 August 1999: Unidentified author in News 31/1999 (Austrian weekly, see German Wiki) “Record of A Total Solar Eclipse. -- How the Viennese Book Author Werner Raffetseder Experienced A Total Solar Eclipse on the Island of Aruba.” (1 page, text and 4 pics)

02 August 1999: Unidentified author in Germany’s BILD “I Have Experienced the Latest Eclipse. – This Is How the Scientific Writer Werner Raffetseder Experienced the Latest Total Solar Eclipse” (nearly one page, text and 2 pics)

08 August 1999: Trude Sagmeister in Kronenzeitung „And Again And Again the Sun Rises. -- Total Solar Eclise. The Sky and Media Event of the Year. An Austrian Wrote THE BOOK for It. Reveals Tips And Tricks. And Makes the Business of His Life with the Superstar, That Is the Sun.” (2 pages, text and 5 pics)

12 August 1999: Norbert Swoboda in Kleine Zeitung „Next Time ‘Live’ -- Solar Eclipse: Viennese Author Werner Raffetseder Reported Live for the ZDF at Mainz Yesterday. He Missed the Wonder of Nature. But Soon He Will Travel to the South Seas And See the Next Eclipse in 2001.” (1 page, text and 1 pic).

Moreover, there are lots of book reviews to be found. Let me just mention two:

22 July 1999: Miloš Vec in Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung Nr. 167, p. 53: „Der Mast ist zu niedrig, der Mond zu hoch. – The Mast Is Too Low, the Moon Is Too High“ (eclipse book).

07-08 August 1999: Helmut Hornung in Süddeutsche Zeitung Nr. 180: „The Travelling Night“ (eclipse book).

Besides radio and TV-appearances where Raffetseder was interviewed about his multimedia works and other topics in Austrian and German stations, he was at least twice invited to ORF TV-broadcasts as the guest of honour:

31 March 1996: broadcast “Seniorenclub”, ORF channel 2.

07 August 1999: broadcast “Millionenrad”, ORF channel 2.

Hope this will help. --VuestraMerced (talk) 14:31, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This is the AfD for United Festivals, not Raffetseder. United Festivals is not mentioned in any of your sources. I just checked the archives of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung and Süddeutsche Zeitung for "United Festivals": no results. --bender235 (talk) 14:48, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * As I mentioned further on top: yesterday, Sunday, March 6, being shown in 3sat, broadcast "lebensart", between 0.35 and 1.35, United Festivals has probably for the first time crossed borders and appeared in Germany and Switzerland as well. Please, do not forget, that these guys have just recently returned from 10 years of field work --VuestraMerced (talk) 16:36, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * And here I finally found some extra evidence as wanted by Bender235 (printed, but upload is any time possible): the February 2011-SERVUS print reportage "G'standene Mander" by Werner Raffetseder and Erich Reismann (that displays the colourful living cultural heritage of the Tyrolean town of Imst on 9 pages) ends on page 96, thereafter it is stated explicitly: "Our author Werner Raffetseder manages the initiative "United Festivals" for the safeguarding of the intangible cultural heritage." (In German: "Unser Autor Werner Raffetseder leitet die Initiative "United Festivals" zum Schutz des immateriellen Weltkulturerbes.") Moreover, the December 2010-edition of the same magazine states explicitly on page 6: "Werner Raffetseder is an adventurer, world traveller and ethnologist. The author ("The Rubbish People of Manila") directs the initiative United Festivals to foster the safeguarding of our intangible cultural heritage. His reportage about the traditional Schemenlaufen of Imst appears in print in February. (In German: "Werner Raffetseder ist Abenteurer, Weltreisender und Völkerkundler. Der Autor ("Müllmenschen in Manila") leitet die Initiative "United Festivals" zum Schutz des immateriellen Kulturerbes. Seine Brauchtums-Reportage über das Imster Schemenlaufen erscheint im Februar.") --VuestraMerced (talk) 02:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm done with this. Just an advice to the admin reviewing this: don't be fooled by this obvious meat-puppetry here. Please check each user's contribs before assessing their comments. --bender235 (talk) 16:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete per Bender. I don't see anything in the article that would make this notable. The media attention was minor, and the article basically seems like promotion. The latter point is, in itself, not an argument for deletion, of course. This SERVUS reference (which is not available online, apparently), from the description above--"a short description of UNITED FESTIVALS main goal" in an interview with Raffetseder--does not look like reliable coverage from a secondary source. And even if--it's a short description, and apparently the only one. I am also not convinced by mention of the festival in an interview with him. If this is so highly notable and important, where are the secondary sources that specifically address this festival? Drmies (talk) 22:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Reinforce Keep. A few final thoughts, before the end of discussion. Please, let us not kill birds with cannons and cry loudly for deletion, only because of alleged lacking notability. As we know from radio, TV and an Austrian magazine, United Festivals has – after finishing its long term research work abroad – finally started its media work, supposedly to be followed by more (just like the Wikipedia article tells). What seems most relevant to me for an initiative of this kind, is the artistic and publishing action and the question, whether the challenging objective can be achieved in the long term: awareness raising for cultural values, “promoting respect for diversity”, so that the intangible cultural heritage (ICE) won’t get completely lost. In this context, strongly considering the social importance of such commitment, I reinforce my vote for KEEP. UNESCO itself, in its Convention for the Safeguarding of the ICE, Article 1, appeals for awareness raising at a local, national and international level and expects, that all social forces on hand join it. On a local and national level (radio, TV, print) and even on an international one (3sat-TV: Germany, Austria, Switzerland) United Festivals could already start its media work, drawing attention to our traditions that account for an essential part of our identity. Of course, a lot of activity will be necessary, and probably a lot of volunteers and well-meaning supporters as well, to bring such a ship on course and – maybe some time – into the harbour. When it comes to such endeavour, let us not forget an old Chinese wisdom: Even the longest journey begins with the very first step (Laotse). And strongholds of information and knowledge, institutions like Wikipedia, should not underestimate its invaluable role to set things in motion and to speed up a change of mind: facebook has just helped to make revolution. Long story short sense: I cannot believe that United Festivals is just the vanity of a madcap (Raffetseder?), I believe it is more: the project we are discussing was started by a professional best selling author, who has lived for months with the ostracized scavengers of Manila, just to know what he is talking about. I shall, therefore, ask for support that this article will remain and be successively enhanced according to actions and to progress of the initiative: it will be an article that lives, of course, just like others and our living cultural heritage. --VuestraMerced (talk) 06:25, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * As we know from radio, TV and an Austrian magazine, United Festivals has – after finishing its long term research work abroad – finally started its media work, supposedly to be followed by more.
 * Then re-add the article once it actually gained notability. Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion. Neither are we a crystal ball, describing what might be relevant in the future "after media work has been done". --bender235 (talk) 11:46, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Hello, I am Werner Raffetseder, just found out that, unintentionally, I became the subject of the upper discussion. I confirm what the Wikipedia articles are stating about me and our “United Festivals” program. The articles are alright even though displaying only facets of my professional life and this project, of course. If I can contribute to reach a consensus, you may contact me at: unitedfestivals@gmx.net. greetings, WRA. --195.70.232.230 (talk) 22:33, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.