Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/United States and state-sponsored terrorism (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I was on the edge about whether this should be keep or no consensus. Eventually came to the conclusion that a new user whose only contributions are nominating articles for deletion raises some eyebrows, and I've never liked this page is pretty much the canonical example of a a WP:ATA. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:36, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

United States and state-sponsored terrorism
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Delete Clearly flunks WP:POVFORK already completely covered in United States and state terrorism and also WP:REDUNDANT.Further this article is a list about 6 different issues which promotes WP:fringe theory and WP:COATRACK and conspiracy theory. 1973 Chilean coup d'état and United States intervention in Chile articles state There is no hard evidence of direct U.S. assistance to the coup, despite frequent allegations of such aid.Further supporting a Coup is not Terrorism 99% of the sources the coup was do not say it is Terrorism. Piazza Fontana bombing there was a arrest and trial but the role of the CIA is debatable again a conspiracy theory Most sources say it is Human Rights Violations in Colombia not terrorism.USA is not directly involved. Los Pepes is not a terrorist group only a paramilitary fighting drugs It is WP:UNDUE to focus on Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles have section son them the article giving them focus that even Osama Bin Laden and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi do not get coverage. Nervegolgi (talk) 12:28, 6 November 2018 (UTC) — Nervegolgi (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Vanamonde (talk) 06:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:40, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cuba-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 12:41, 6 November 2018 (UTC)


 *  Delete  as its subject duplicates that of an existing article, United States and state terrorism. The examples it describes could, where established as genuine, be added to that article. Maproom (talk) 15:47, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , that isn't the case; the titles are only superficially similar. Please take a look at the sources and the substance of the articles. Vanamonde (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I've struck my !vote. You and Vanamonde (below) make good points. Maproom (talk) 09:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep The pages cover clearly distinct tpoics. United States and state terrorism refers to US involvement with so-called state-terrorism; the use of torture, murder, and so forth by national governments that has the support of the US. The page being nominated here is about US support to paramilitary groups that have committed terrorist activities, as described by reliable sources. These activities were in/targeting countries typically unfriendly to the US, such as Cuba or pre-1973 Chile. There are plenty of RS covering this topic; take these, for example, which are both high-quality scholarly sources. The nominator has made no edits outside AfD (itself very suspicious) but also has language strikingly similar to that of the account which opened the first AfD on this article. Vanamonde (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

The references given do not say so. Century of Revolution. do not explicitly say that USA enraged in Terrorism the book uses the term Terrorism only 5 times in different contexts. and neither could I find it in the other book. Nervegolgi (talk) 12:27, 7 November 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The Main article United States and state terrorism is not long and is a short article and the list of this article can be added there if salvageable.
 * This article only contains about 7 examples .The Main article
 * Piazza Fontana bombing USA involvement is disputed as per reliable sources and there were 3 trials in Italy. USA involvement is only a conspiracy theory.
 * Years of Lead (Italy) local both left-wing and right-wing incidents of political terrorism.USA involvement is debated is not terrorism
 * 1973 Chilean coup d'état and United States intervention in Chile is not terrorism in almost all reliable sources. USA direct involvement in Chilean coup has been debated and most and is a only a conspiracy theory as per most reliable sources.Even then is not Terrorism.Death of Salvador Allende is suicide after almost several investigations.
 * Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles is WP:UNDUE
 * Right-wing paramilitarism in Colombia .USA involvement is limited and is Human Rights Violation
 * Los Pepes is an anti Drug movement killing Pablo Escobar and drug lords even if killed extra judicially is not terrorism only Human Rights Violations.
 * I say the old nomination which is 3 year old and took some points do not see anything wrong in it.
 * Keep. I agree there are POV issues on the page - specifically lack of the rather wide refutations that many of these constituted terrorism. However, terrorism is a subjective measure and it is rather clear there is wide coverage of the claim that the US has been involved with or in relations with groups that are claimed to be terrorists by at least those who are opposed to said groups.Icewhiz (talk) 14:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Duplication of content United States and state terrorism already covers it and Mr Icewhiz we need sources to say it is terrorism and not human rights as most articles linked in the article say so, further there is another article to add the examples there and  US support to paramilitary groups can be added there.182.65.179.211 (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2018 (UTC) — 182.65.179.211 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Vanamonde (talk) 00:06, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * State terrorism is a distinct topic from State-sponsored terrorism. The latter could include the former, but the former does not include the latter.Icewhiz (talk) 14:27, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:19, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete the whole title is POV and leading. I've never liked this page. Legacypac (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * NPOV is based on what RS say. Have you read the sources in question? Are you aware we have a very large number of such pages? Vanamonde (talk) 21:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Pinging active participants from the previous discussion: : since you have reviewed this debate previously, your thoughts would be appreciated. Vanamonde (talk) 21:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I will not be participating in this discussion, as doing so would be contrary to my topic ban. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:56, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

CASE CONCERNING THE MILITARY AND PARAMILITARY ACTIVITIES IN AND AGAINST NICARAGUA (NICARAGUA v. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
 * Keep Notable topic, well-sourced article. Most of the CIA activities amount to this. Dimadick (talk) 21:53, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. The idea that the US has sponsored terrorism is wholly mainstream, much of the article is robustly sourced after months of work by editors of differing political opinions, and the nominator is pretty obviously a sock. Guy (Help!) 23:38, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Well-sourced article on a notable topic. State terrorism is terrorism by the state; state-sponsored terrorism is the state sponsoring terrorism by others. The two articles shouldn't be merged because the single article would be too long and difficult to navigate; they should refer to each, as they do currently. Any NPOV issues should be fixed through editing and expansion, not deletion. Frankly, if this isn't an example of a notable topic and a well-sourced article, then I apparently don't understand the English language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Levivich (talk • contribs) 22:35, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Went through the references again do not say it is Terrorism like the ref below say MILITARY AND PARAMILITARY ACTIVITIES   not Terrorism.In over 141 of the references in the article US involvement has not been called Terrorism.

Actually Us involement in Colombia is seen as positive in most references. Why continued US support is crucial for Colombia's peace process BBC Has Plan Colombia really worked? missed above Nervegolgi (talk) 00:18, 17 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.