Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Universidad San Juan de la Cruz


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. Randykitty (talk) 03:30, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Universidad San Juan de la Cruz

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I'm aware that universities are normally considered notable. However, I'm having trouble persuading myself that this one exists at all. It doesn't have an .edu domain; it doesn't have a street address; it doesn't get any hits on Gnews or its archive. Yes it was authorised to grant degrees in 1996, but that was eighteen years ago. See also Articles for deletion/Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:42, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica1000 21:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Latin America-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica1000 21:02, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Rebuttal:

Universidad San Juan de la Cruz (http://www.universidadsanjuan.ac.cr), does have a street address @ 100 metros al Norte Palacio Municipal San Pablo Heredia, Costa Rica  40203, (ICAES), Apdo. Postal 75, 2200 Coronado, San José, Costa Rica and the U.S.A. @ American Learning Center 8300 Old Courthouse Rd Vienna, VA 22182.

The University has both email as well as phone contact information listed within its websites. SJDLC University has an {ac.cr} domain, which is equivalent to a USA {.edu} domain, > example: University of Costa Rica (http://www.ucr.ac.cr), a Costa Rican State University.

The University is affiliated with the Costa Rica Bar Association  ("abogados.or.cr" "U San Juan"),'> Google.  Central America Workers Movement / as Costa Rican solidarity CMTC, CMTC Programs for People with Disabilities , Central Institute of Social Studies (ICAES)'.

The University is affiliated with the Costa Rican, SOER, SOER, Disadvantage Youth Programs , National Academy of Sciences (ac.cr) , California University FCE pcu.edu (http://www.cufce.pcu.edu), and Akamai University, U.S.A.. SJDLC University is recognized by several (http://CHEA.org) Higher Education Organizations as well as Foreign Ministries.     > See, Wikipedia Revised Article <

SJDLC University (Campus location) @ 100 metros al Norte Palacio Municipal San Pablo Heredia, Costa Rica 40203

'''SJDLC University (Affiliated Campus) @ Instituto Centroamericano de Estudios Sociales (ICAES)''', Apdo. Postal 75, 2200 Coronado, San José, Costa Rica

'''SJDLC University (Affiliated Campus) @ American Learning Center''' 8300 Old Courthouse Rd Vienna, VA 22182 U.S.A

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.168.215 (talk) 01:30, 24 October 2014 (UTC) — 173.66.168.215 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 
 * Comment. For the record, some countries use the .ac domain (as this one does) instead of the .edu domain. These countries include such academically unreliable countries as the United Kingdom! Not having an .edu URL is most certainly not an indicator that an institution is not genuine. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:54, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 01:03, 31 October 2014 (UTC)



___________________________________________________________________________________
 * Comment - would appear to be a degree-awarding, UNESCO-registered, university but a closer inspection suggests the "undergraduate degrees" consist of 2-3 4-month blocks; effectively 2 semesters. I think we need more information (ideally from independent third parties) before calling this one.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 01:40, 31 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - The National Council of Private Higher Education University (CONESUP), (Spanish) prescribes, approve, inspect as well as accept complaints regarding the curriculum of private universities. Universidad San Juan de la Cruz is listed under (MEP-Conesup)  . MEP-Conesup U.S.A. CHEA listing

Department of Technical Analysis and Curriculum, CONESUP > Phone: 2221-4465 / 2233-2832 / 2233-2909 ext. 2061/2063/2079/2083 Email: [analisis.conesup@mep.go.cr]

Department of Inspection and Registration of Securities, CONESUP > Phone: 2221-4465 / 2233-2832 / 2233-2909 ext. 2075/2076/2077/2078/2088 Email: [inspeccion.conesup@mep.go.cr]

Department of Administrative Management, CONESUP > Phone: 2221-4465 / 2233-2832 / 2233-2909 ext. 2060/2064/2065/2069/2070/2071/2072 Email: [gestion.conesup@mep.go.cr] _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


 * Comment - The degree programs for Universidad San Juan de la Cruz and all private universities that are not under SINAES, are accredited by the higher standards of UNIRE

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.168.215 (talk) 13:45, 31 October 2014 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 14:38, 7 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Before removal from the internet due to privacy issues, excel online records revealed that nearly 2,000 students graduated from Universidad San Juan de la Cruz since the year 2000.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.168.215 (talk) 15:02, 10 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The problem remains that despite assertions that the university a. exists; and, b. is a degree-awarding institution such that it would be considered notable by our standards, only the former has been substantiated with documentary evidence and no instances of significant coverage in multiple reliable sources have been offered up for consideration. There are many, many certificate-awarding institutions and a great many of those describe their certifications in different terms. Proponents seem to misunderstand what they are required to put forward.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 07:48, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The National Council of Private Higher Education University (CONESUP) and the National Council of Rectors, (Spanish) prescribes, approve, inspect as well as accept complaints regarding private universities. Universidad San Juan de la Cruz is listed as recognized under (MEP-Conesup) .  MEP-Conesup and the National Council of Rectors are recognized by CHEA - Council for Higher Education Accreditation Washington, D.C.


 * Yes, that repeats what has already been established - that it is registered with various institutions or associations of higher education. I'm not trying to nit-pick when I point out that "prescribing" and "approving" are not the same as "accrediting". If that is what you mean then we're a step closer, though it would still need verification. But please try to find instances of coverage, the sort that would allow the subject to meet WP:GNG, rather than simply repeating what the institution offers or who has acknowledged they exist. Wikipedia requires a higher standard than simple existence. It's worth pointing out, also, that by international standards, 2000 graduates in 14 years is a staggeringly small number when compared to even the smallest universities in other countries. That's about 140 a year, or less than many high schools.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 11:40, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Question for : What are the geographical coordinates of the main university facilities? Does it have more than one campus? I looked at San Pablo Heredia on Google Maps and didn't see anything that looked like a university, but maybe I was looking in the wrong place? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:27, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The higher standards needed are located within the affiliate Institutions and (MEP-Conesup) accreditation. Wikipedia has plenty of Diploma Mills listed with fake locations, accreditation as well as online (internet only) presence. Universidad San Juan de la Cruz actually hold college classes at the (ICAES) Campus - Apdo. Postal 75, 2200 Coronado, San José, Costa Rica, which is a physical location within Costa Rica. Universidad San Juan indicates this location in its website. MEP-Conesup maintains a list of approved physical locations from which Universidad San Juan de la Cruz operate college programs. The nearly 2000 graduates in 14 years is a staggeringly small number, but that number is Costa Rica only and does not include Universidad San Juan de la Cruz international college affiliate programs.


 * MEP-Conesup and the National Council of Rectors are the only authorities recognized as accreditation by the U.S. Department of Education and CHEA. SINAES and UNIRE are the two accreditation programs recognized in Costa Rica under MEP-Conesup and the National Council of Rectors. UNIRE.or.cr performed an inspection upon Universidad San Juan de la Cruz and submitted an inspection report on November 3, 2010


 * Reference (Spanish) Page# 6
 * Scanned Document - UNIRE.or.cr
 * de julio del 2010 y N°655—2010, celebrada el 21 de julio del 2010. ..... Univermdad San Juan de la Cruz sin autorización de la propia Univer5idad. 38.


 * There are four universities within the San Pablo de Heredia area, I believe that Universidad San Juan de la Cruz probably operates affiliate college programs from one or more locations. (Google Maps)


 * Yes, it exists, but how is it notable? If you're relying on its mere existence then this article will probably be deleted. The burden is on you to demonstrate that the subject is notable and that the facts included are verifiable. And please learn to indent properly and add to this discussion in a helpful way, rather than simply adding a line rule and repeating things you've already said. Read the policies and guidelines being cited and contribute something to the discussion about why this is a notable subject per Wikipedia standards.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 01:07, 13 November 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no burden upon me in that it is not my decision. Thanks for allowing me to contribute, may God Bless everyone!


 * You're mixing decision-making with argument-making. Decisions here are based on community consensus to which you may contribute. If nobody makes an argument for this to be kept it will simply be deleted.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 06:04, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
 * There are many notable people that have graduated from Universidad San Juan de la Cruz, three are listed. Contributing special education to people with disabilities as well as disadvantage youth are very notable causes for any University.
 * You're confusing nobility with notability. Those are noble causes for a university, as is the cause of educating celebrities. But the institution doesn't inherit notability from its notable students. There are institutions entirely dedicated to educating those with disabilities. That does not, unfortunately, make them notable.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 09:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - despite our best efforts, proponents refuse to put forward a case for "keep" beyond WP:ITEXISTS. There's nothing more that I can do to make the case or encourage others to do so. If nobody can/will make the case that this is notable, I have to assume it isn't.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 06:04, 13 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Notability - Universidad San Juan de la Cruz is noted for its prominent research in marine science and protecting the environment in the Costa Rica region. The Rector of the University has submitted many years of research findings to the President of Costa Rica as well as NASA in the United States. There are numerous research findings in the (universidadsanjuan.com) website as well as over the internet, below are just a few.


 * Research submitted to the President of Costa Rica


 * Costa Rica State University


 * Research (Marine)


 * Research (Ozone)


 * Keep but rewrite Mere existence of a degree granting university is sufficient, and we have never previously deleted a single one of them in the last 6 years. Entirely online universities and those with unconventional programs can be special cases, and it would appear that at least some of these buildings are less than traditional university facilities, but this one seems sufficiently real. Thought the rather extreme inappropriateness of the article certainly makes a case for deletion, I think it would be very wrong for us to break one of the few consistent precedents we have. But if the article is kept, I'll edit it the way I have just begun to; if deleted, I'll probably re-write a proper stub article.  DGG ( talk ) 06:40, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Except, DGG, we haven't actually established that its a degree-awarding university. Proponents here claim it is because they call the certificates they hand out "degrees". But so do the Freemasons. If you look at the website (the institution's own translation) the courses in questions are a few months long. They aren't standard 3 - 4 year degrees like the ones you would get as UCLA or Sydney University or the University of Mumbai.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 07:25, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I interpret the discussion as saying they are given in multiple 3 month blocks rather than a continuous program. Many new institutions --of admittedly variable reputation--do that. But this sort of thing can be quite difficult to pin down, especially outside an educational system we're familiar with.  DGG ( talk ) 08:36, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, which is why I spend most of the above trying to establish exactly that. They do seem to be multiple 3-month blocks but, in some cases, only two or three of those. That's less than 9 months for something they are suggesting is a "degree". I'm honestly not sure and proponents have been no help whatsoever.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 11:01, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment – The Bachelor Degree programs are eight semesters in length.

 The professional degree or master degree programs are two to four semesters in length. Each semester requires 4 months of studies. Bachelor Degrees - 32 months Professional Degrees - 8-12 months + Dissertation (Requires a Bachelor Degree to enroll) Master Degrees - 16 months + Thesis (Requires a Bachelor Degree to enroll) * Each Advanced Degree program requires a Thesis, Dissertation or Project + extra academic studies. 
 * Question since you seem to know the university, could you give us some information about how many of each degree have been awarded so far?  DGG ( talk ) 20:21, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Contact by email > MEP-Conesup for Universidad San Juan de la Cruz degree awarding statistics or contact the Universidad San Juan de la Cruz


 * No, that would require us to conduct original research and the resulting information could not be used to verify anything, let along substantiate the claim in question to a standard required for notability.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 23:02, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * On 8/26/2010, an archived Universidad San Juan de la Cruz website cites more than 2,000 Graduates since its 1996 inception.


 * Keep. It's a university, and per DGG. -- do  ncr  am  18:46, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.