Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University College Dublin Law Society


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. With a note that several of the keep votes were filed by single-purpose or very new accounts, though this doesn't seem to sway the discussion terribly. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 03:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

University College Dublin Law Society

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Recreation of previously previously deleted student society which still fails WP:N and still smacks of WP:PROMOTION. Still a lack of reliable refs also. Delete Féasógach (talk) 11:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions.  -- Mm40 (talk) 12:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions.  -- Mm40 (talk) 12:59, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - the editors don't help themselves by including unsourced puffery (I've cleaned out the worst) and trivia. However, this society does get regular press mentions and is just worth keeping. TerriersFan (talk) 15:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  —TerriersFan (talk) 15:16, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * keep This article deserves a space just like any other article! down with fascist wikipedia! keep wikipedia a free encyclopedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Uni4life (talk • contribs) 15:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The fallaciousness of such arguments as this is discussed at Pokémon test. --Bejnar (talk) 21:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. (Shame about the above comment, but anyway). I guess this society is similar to the Oxford and Cambridge unions, but with a bit less history behind it. It appears that it has received some coverage, and had notable speakers participating in debates. Is it a potentially useful encyclopaedic topic? I think so. Quantpole (talk) 16:37, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per discussion above, but it needs a lot of format repair: citations don't seem to be how they should be. Can this be fixed? Bearian (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Neutral This is full of puffery. The Law Society is a student society of the University College Dublin Law School, on which we don't even have an article. "Established in 1911", well yes, there will have been a student law society for as long as there's been a faculty of law there - big deal. "4,500 members"? - well, since the source is a deadlink that's unverifiable - but many student societies have inflated numbers by counting every enrolled student within certain classes as a "member" of the appropriate society - even if they never attend. I was a member of several. Some famous speakers? Big deal. I'll bet Mary McAleese also speaks to church groups too occasionally. The question is, were these significant and highly reported speeches - or just stump speeches from politicians doing the rounds? Show me some media reporting and not just the inevitable press release. "Mooting" competitions? All Law faculties do those. Illustrious honorary members? Do they do significant things, or is this just a nod to alumni of the faculty? We need some verifiable sign of notability here. I could be convinced to keep this - but the keep voters need to do some work to verify something from independent 3rd party sources.--Scott Mac (Doc) 17:01, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep   I think this is an exception to the general rule about student societies. (I say this although I have almost always !voted delete for them). It has a major role in an important university.    DGG ( talk ) 17:14, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - non notable student society. Snappy (talk) 23:01, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete None of the "keeps" above seem to address the lack of notability. At best this society deserves a line or at most two in the article about the University College Dublin.  It does not appear to be independently notable.   DGG says it has a major role at the University College Dublin, but the sources do not support that statement.  While it is very true that a number of notable people have appeared at their functions, that in an of its self does not make it a notable student society. Note that the "media coverage" is The University Observer which is a student newspaper distributed throughout campus of University College Dublin fortnightly. There is no significant independent media coverage. --Bejnar (talk) 21:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I should note that "press mentions" and "significant coverage" are not the same thing. Please read the notability guidelines and Reliable sources. --Bejnar (talk) 21:14, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Keep Much more notable than e.g. Northern Council for Unity.Red Hurley (talk) 19:54, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep This society hosted an event this year, spoken at by 8 mainstream Irish politicians including an ex Prime Minister, attended by a capacity crowd of 1500 as well as press from the Irish Times, Evening Herald and RTE. I realise most of the debate on this society is not by Irish people, and maybe you don't understand the importance of people involved to the nation of Ireland. But this society does play a significant role on the central stage. I'll search for more sources, however I do know a history is currently being compiled by a third party. As for the above comment, I'd note that 2 of the sources on the page are the Irish Times and Evening Herald, which are mainstream press, the Mao article which is referenced from the UCD home page can be found also in the IrishTimes by simply putting in an IrishTimes search for UCD Lawsoc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.72.7 (talk) 03:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Not notable. Important role? How exactly? What official role does it play in the University? Yes it may host an important talk once or twice a year but I don't think that it warrants it's own article.109.78.180.163 (talk) 17:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep This discussion appears to be based on unfair criteria. This is a student debating society, not just a faculty society. The scrutiny which is being applied to this entry (which I will concede is fair in terms of sources and citations, they do need to be improved) should also be applied to all other student debating societies listed on wikipedia such as the UCC Philosoph, TCD Phil & Hist and UCD L&H. They all do exactly the same things as this society in terms of events, guests and debates. The reason some of the sources are from the University Observer is because the membership numbers are quite obviously not going to be reported in the national news. Deletion of this article would also create a number of deadlinks on the World Universities Debating Pages and the Irish Times National Debating Championship Pages. —Preceding Scipio88 comment added by 87.232.72.7 (talk) 11:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scipio88 (talk • contribs)
 * Keep The Society, its founding and a lot of its history are referenced in the Irish Times archives: http://www.irishtimes.com/search/archive.html?rm=listresults&filter=dateasc&keywords=legal%20and%20economic%20society - unfortunately this is subscription only so cannot be referenced. I note that the late Tom O'Higgins (former Irish Chief Justice) devotes a chapter of his autobiography ("A Double Life") to his involvement with the Society. Surely this represents sufficient notability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Conghaile (talk • contribs) 12:13, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment While trying to assume good faith I think one or two contributors here, who seem to contribute only to this student society's article, should be aware of conflict of interest guidelines.Féasógach (talk) 21:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.