Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University of East London School of Law


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Big Dom  14:23, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

University of East London School of Law

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Not sufficiently notable per WP:UNIGUIDE. Has been PROD'ed and then discussed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Universities Sitush (talk) 01:29, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - A large law school (by UK standards anyhow) which is active in research. Numerous references can be found in books: and the school is active in research. The article is low quality however and needs work. I should add that the quoted uniguide is not Wikipedia policy but merely a guide. This is a natural break-out article from University of East London. Rangoon11 (talk) 01:36, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - about the books, since this was not raised in the discussion linked to in the nomination. 500-odd hits for UEL per the link, 1700-odd for Cardiff Law School (picked at random, my nephew is studying chem. there), 3900-odd for Cambridge law school (my alma mater, and highly misleading because most authors will use their college name or "faculty" instead of "school"). It is the job of UK university academics to write articles and books. If they do not then the funding is cut. So, I'm not sure of the relevance of this to the debate. Is productivity the same as notability? - Sitush (talk) 02:19, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I doubt that even the faculty of the UEL School of Law would claim that their school is in the same league as Cambridge law school. Notability is not a relative concept however. What the books result does show is coverage, and that this school is highly active in research. The motivations for that activity and its relative quality compared to Cambridge are of no relevance in my view.Rangoon11 (talk) 15:46, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - A small law school by international standards and can be covered in the University of East London article. Mtking (talk) 01:55, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - UNIGUIDE, cited in the nomination, is a style guide for how to write articles on universities. The rationale that I would make is this: law schools, unlike the departments of a university related to fields of academic study, maintain their own admissions offices. Harvard University and the Harvard School of Law should and do have separate pages; ergo the University of East London and the University of East London School of Law should have their own pages. The size of the school is largely irrelevant, to my mind, just as the size of a high school is irrelevant to the question of whether it is regarded as a valid subject for encyclopedic coverage. Carrite (talk) 06:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - to Carrite. Firstly, other stuff exists. Secondly, are you sure of your facts regarding admissions offices? The UK system is not necessarily the same as in the USA etc. There is little difference between a School and a department/faculty in most cases in the UK - it's just semantics. All UK university departments have some control over their admissions & often have endowments for the making of scholarship awards etc; equally all of them use the UCAS clearing system & all the universities (that I am aware of) have a central admissions office which is the top tier in a hierarchy of decision-making. There are exceptions, eg: London School of Economics (LSE) is a genuinely separate university institution; UEL Law is not. - Sitush (talk) 13:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a misuse of the Gotcha Phrase™ "Other Stuff Exists." I am not arguing that this article should stay because the University of East London Law School is more important than Eureka HIgh School, I am making an argument based upon established precedent, which allows Wikipedia to be developed consistently. Carrite (talk) 16:01, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Not a misuse at all, as far as I can see. You were saying that Harvard School of Law has its own article, therefore UEL should. How is that not "other stuff exists? - Sitush (talk) 22:12, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. "The Times Higher Education survey ranked the school as 38th in the UK" - it is hardly Harvard. I see no evidence that this needs an article any more than the other Faculties/Schools of this university or most universities need one. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  11:04, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, an institution's ranking does not decide its notability. I'm not saying your argument is necessarily wrong, but the way you've said it is not a valid argument for deletion.--Yaksar (let's chat) 16:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I did not say that the ranking decides its notability. I was just throwing cold water over the idea that because Harvard Law School has an article, then this one should have an article. To expand on my second sentence, the references seems to be all from the university itself or about individuals. I see no sources that are independent reliable sources attesting to the notability of the school. Much of the article is not encyclopedic and it can easily be merged into the university article. This school is just a university department or faculty. It does not stand out from the others and I would be suprised indeed if it handled its own admissions separately from the university itself. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  22:02, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - seems to have enough info and independence from the greater university to warrant its own article. That being said, if I'm missing something please correct me. A merge isn't totally out of the question, however. Yaksar (let's chat) 16:29, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. There is no claim the subject fails the GNG, and no policy- or guideline-based argument for deletion. In particular, our inclusion criteria for academic institutions have no "Top 40" type criteria. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:35, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Is the UNIGUIDE referred to not a guideline? I'm confused! - Sitush (talk) 19:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a "style guideline," and the section on notability is characterized as only "an essay." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:42, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  —• Gene93k (talk) 17:45, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:45, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep per Carrite. Mandsford 18:08, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. This Law School, like many UK Law Schools and Business Schools, seems to be simply a department or subsection of a UK University, and as such can be covered within the main university article. Should we have separate articles for every school or department in every university? If not, then delete. At the moment, the article contains a list of courses (and why even have these? Wikipedia isn't a prospectus), a small section on research which also belongs in the prospectus, and a list of 3 people only one of whom is notable enough to have their own wiki article.  Reg porter (talk) 20:54, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Firstly, this isn't a discussion about the quality of the article, but the notability of the subject. Secondly, this isn't a discussion about other schools/departments of UEL or any other UK universities. If other law schools or university departments can demonstrate notability in accordance with policy then there is no reason why they should not have articles, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. And even if notability could be established for every single department/school of every single university in the UK, and someone wanted to write the articles - clearly hugely unlikely - the number of additional Wikipedia articles would, in the context of Wikipedia as a whole, be miniscule, certainly well below 0.002% of all articles.Rangoon11 (talk) 21:05, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep — the school is large and the article is referenced, although could do with further work. — Jonathan Bowen (talk) 14:39, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - can we just nail this "large" thing? I do not think that it is particularly large & have given some examples somewhere (Bristol Law School is twice the size, for example). Someone else has pointed out that in international terms it is apparently small (but I've no idea where xe got that from either). The notability derives mostly from the research institute which it houses but is a separate body. - Sitush (talk) 14:46, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - our practice has been to have separate articles for law and medical schools and that's fine. In any case this page meets WP:GNG. If some consolidation is sought I suggest merging Centre on Human Rights in Conflict into this page. TerriersFan (talk) 14:50, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep This seems to be a significant law school.  D r e a m Focus  21:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep, there seems to be plenty of significant and sourced material that can be written about this which would be too great a detail for the general UEL article. If we did sub-article naming then it would be clear that this isn't pretending to be a separate institution but just a section of a more general article that is too large for the general page. Full disclosure: I'm currently a student of a different school at UEL and have no connection with the law school. Thryduulf (talk) 18:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep, per previously listed reasons, and in my opinion, it easily meets notability requirements and is a natural breakout article from the main UEL one. CrazyPaco (talk) 18:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.