Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uranus building (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ for now. (non-admin closure) Awesome Aasim 15:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Uranus building
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

WP:NOTNEWS: This appears to be a fail of WP:NBUILDING and thus is likely not notable. I am finding more coverage of the earthquake than the building itself. If there is more coverage about the collapse, then the title should be "Collapse of Uranus building" rather than this title. Awesome Aasim 18:09, 9 April 2024 (UTC)


 * BTW I just took a look at the previous nomination: The claims of "notability" being drawn appear to be from WP:SYNTH. Passing mentions does not guarantee notability. Synthesis of sources that mention individual facts is not an encyclopedia article, it's WP:OR and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Awesome Aasim 18:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm pinging the previous participants, given that this just closed: @Piotrus, @Cunard, @DANGA14, @Vchimpanzee, @Great_achievement, @Chongkian, @Brudelman, and @Liz. Mason (talk) 19:59, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm mainly interested in what went wrong with the construction of this building compared to others, so I guess that's okay.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  21:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture and Taiwan. – dudhhr talkcontribssheher 18:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep. Notability is notability regardless of whether it is notable from the earthquake or not. The AFP/Straits Times as well as the United Daily News sources provided in the previous AFD clearly passes the mark for "significant coverage" counted into WP:GNG. There's also other sources from Google that specifically cover the building. WP:NBUILDING states "Buildings, including private residences, transportation facilities and commercial developments, may be notable as a result of their historic, social, economic, or architectural importance, but they require significant in-depth coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability.", for which I find the building to be passing the "historic" part as what the AP has termed as an "iconic" image from the earthquake, in addition to the BBC claiming the image of the building has been "shared across the world". Currently don't have any strong opinions for the proposed new title. S5A-0043 Talk 02:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Articles published after the 2024 Hualien earthquake:  The article notes: "Fruit, flowers and incense paper were laid on a table on April 5 as the authorities prepared a ceremony before demolishing a precariously tilting building that has become a symbol of Taiwan’s biggest quake in 25 years. The glass-fronted Uranus building, located in Hualien, the city nearest to the quake’s epicentre, is a 10-storey mix of shops and apartments that has stood for nearly 40 years. The 7.4-magnitude earthquake on April 3 caused it to tilt at a 45-degree angle, its twisted exterior quickly becoming one of the most recognisable images to emerge from the disaster."   The article notes: "花蓮市天王星大樓在二○一八年花蓮○二○六地震時，因受損被列黃單，經修繕已經解除，不料仍被昨天的強震震倒. " From Google Translate: "The Uranus Building in Hualien City was placed on the yellow list due to damage during the Hualien 0206 earthquake in 2018. After repairs were lifted, it was unexpectedly still knocked down by yesterday's strong earthquake." The article notes: "位於花蓮市軒轅路的天王星大樓，鄰近東大門夜市，一九八六年取得使用執照，九層樓共有七十九戶居住，以套房為主，去年底最新的實價登錄約兩百萬元出頭；二○一八年花蓮○二○六地震發生時，天王星大樓曾因牆壁、地磚被震損，經結構技師勘查後貼上黃單，後來經過修繕，恢復原狀使用，因此解除. " From Google Translate: "The Uranus Building is located on Xuanyuan Road in Hualien City, adjacent to the Dongdamen Night Market. It obtained a usage license in 1986. There are 79 households living on the nine floors, mainly suites. The latest real price at the end of last year was about $2 million. When the Hualien 0206 earthquake occurred in 2018, the Uranus Building was damaged due to the earthquake's walls and floor tiles. After inspection by structural technicians, it was affixed with a yellow slip. It was later repaired and restored to its original condition, so it was released."   The article notes: "7.2花蓮強震發生至今進入第5天，搜救人員持續在花蓮市的天王星大樓等倒塌現場及太魯閣等地進行搜救. 有天王星大樓住戶回想自己就是因為經歷921大地震，才從1樓搬到9樓，認為住到較高樓比較有生存空間. " From Google Translate: "It is the fifth day since the 7.2 Hualien earthquake. Search and rescue personnel continue to conduct search and rescue operations at collapse sites such as the Uranus Building in Hualien City and in Taroko and other places. Some residents of the Uranus Building recalled that they moved from the 1st floor to the 9th floor because of the 921 earthquake, thinking that living in a higher building would provide more living space."   The article notes: "大楼正式拆除，对无法拿出家当的原住户来说，心中也是五味杂陈. 其中有位老妇连日来重返现场，哭求工作人员让她重返大楼取出“救命钱”，不过由于现场相当危险，每次都只能铩羽而归. " From Google Translate: "The building was officially demolished, which brought mixed feelings to the original residents who were unable to take out their belongings. Among them, an old woman returned to the scene for several days, crying and begging the staff to let her return to the building to withdraw "life-saving money." However, because the scene was very dangerous, she could only fail every time."  </ol></li> <li>Articles published before the 2024 Hualien earthquake:<ol> <li>Selection of three sources:<ol> <li> The article notes: "太府建設公司興建的「天王星」大樓，位於台中市北屯路國民黨台灣省黨部斜對面，基地七百多坪，是地下五樓、地上廿層樓建築. 太府建設主管表示，這棟大樓於民國七十八年間完工，地上九樓至廿樓辦公室已出售，其餘規劃為商場；但目前只有「金鼎綜合證券台中分公司」在九樓. " From Google Translate: ""The "Uranus" building built by Taifu Construction Company is located diagonally opposite the Kuomintang Taiwan Provincial Party Headquarters on Beitun Road, Taichung City. It has a site of more than 700 square meters and is a building with five floors underground and 20 floors above ground. The Taifu Construction Director said that this building was completed in the 1970s. The offices on the ninth to 20th floors above ground have been sold, and the rest are planned to be shopping malls; but currently only the "Jinding Comprehensive Securities Taichung Branch" is on the ninth floor." The article notes: "太府天王星大樓曾在民國七十九年間獲得建築金獅獎，它採用的「逆打沈箱」施工法，也是同業罕用的施工方式. " From Google Translate: "The Taifu Uranus Building won the Golden Lion Award for Architecture in the 1970s of the Republic of China. It adopted the "reverse caisson" construction method, which is also a construction method rarely used in the industry." </li> <li> The article notes: "去(八十一)年十二月經濟部投審會通過最大的外僑投資案-新加坡胡姬集團來台購買太府建設公司的太府天王星大樓，計畫經營五星級觀光飯店案，因胡姬集團遲遲未將價款匯入，增添變數，加上最近太府建設公司傳出跳票，使這項交易備受矚目. " From Google Translate: "In December last year (81), the Investment Review Committee of the Ministry of Economic Affairs approved the largest foreign investment case - the Singapore Orchid Group came to Taiwan to purchase the Taifu Uranus Building of Taifu Construction Company and planned to operate a five-star tourist hotel. Hu Ji Group has been slow to remit the payment, adding to the uncertainty. Coupled with the recent reports of bounced orders from Taifu Construction Company, this transaction has attracted much attention." The article notes: "太府天王星大樓位於台中市北屯路上，為地上十九層、地下五層大樓，總面積一萬一千坪，前(八十)年中完工. 當時太府建設興建這棟大樓煞費苦心，採用沈箱式施工法及新建材，成本比一般大樓高. 其次，當初這棟大樓是採先建後售方式，完工後卻遇市場不景氣、股票大跌等，銷售不理想，現整棟大樓只有金鼎証券台中分公司在九樓營業. " From Google Translate: "Taifu Uranus Building is located on Beitun Road, Taichung City. It is a building with 19 floors above ground and 5 floors underground, with a total area of ​​11,000 square meters. It was completed in the middle of the past (80) years. At that time, Taifu Construction took great pains to build this building, using the caisson construction method and new materials, and the cost was higher than that of ordinary buildings. Secondly, this building was built first and sold later. After the completion, the market was in recession and the stock price plummeted, so sales were not satisfactory. Now only the Taichung branch of Jinding Securities is operating on the ninth floor of the entire building." </li> <li> The article notes: "民國82年間倒閉的台中市太府建設公司，倒閉前在台中市北屯路上興建的太府天王星大樓，最近由法院執行拍賣，由當初提供貸款的慶豐銀行台中分行、中國信託商業銀行以8億2萬元得標，兩家銀行帳面損失約3.5億元. " From Google Translate: "The Taifu Construction Company of Taichung City, which went bankrupt in 1982, and the Taifu Uranus Building built on Beitun Road in Taichung City before its collapse, were recently auctioned by the court. The Taichung Branch of Ching Fung Bank and China Trust Commercial Bank, which originally provided the loan, signed the contract with 8 The bid was worth NT$20,000, and the two banks suffered a loss of approximately NT$350 million." The article notes: "太府天王星大樓為地上19層、地下5層建物，當初太府建設公司將這棟大樓規劃為百貨商場，並在81年間以太府天王星地下5樓至地上8樓，設定抵押給向尚未改制為銀行的國泰信託、中國信託公司，借貸11.5億元. " From Google Translate: "Taifu Uranus Building is a building with 19 floors above ground and 5 floors underground. Originally, Taifu Construction Company planned this building as a department store, and in 1981, from the 5th underground floor to the 8th floor of Taifu Uranus, it was mortgaged to the people who have not yet restructured it. Cathay Trust and China Trust Company, which are banks, borrowed 1.15 billion yuan." The article notes: "太府建設公司倒閉後，太府天王星積欠的房屋稅未清，該棟大樓遭斷電斷水，地上8樓至19樓的部分承購戶根本無法使用，致該棟大樓目前空無一人，空著養蚊子. " From Google Translate: "After the collapse of Taifu Construction Company, Taifu Uranus' accumulated housing taxes were not paid off. The building was cut off from power and water, and some tenants on the 8th to 19th floors were unable to use it at all. As a result, the building is currently empty and empty. Keep mosquitoes." </li> </ol> <li>Additional coverage including passing mentions:<ol> <li> The article provides one sentence of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "花蓮市許多高樓建築物包括統帥大飯店、華王大飯店、天王星大樓等，部分牆壁被震出裂縫，壁磚紛紛掉落. " From Google Translate: "Many high-rise buildings in Hualien City, including the Tongshuai Hotel, Huawang Hotel, and Uranus Building, had some cracks in their walls and wall tiles falling off." </li> <li> The article provides one sentence of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "三、大府建設公司「天王星大樓」，為地上十九層、地下五層的建築. " </li> <li> The article notes: "台中市老字號的太府建設公司最近傳出跳票二千五百多萬元，董事長陳立興昨(廿九)日坦然出面與相關金融機構謀求解決之道. 他說，解決太府財務困難的關鍵，要等到取得新加坡胡姬集團購員太府天王星大樓的新台幣十九億元價款後，才可望化險為夷. " From Google Translate: "Taifu Construction Company, a time-honored company in Taichung City, recently reported that more than $25 million in checks had been bounced. Chairman Chen Li-hsing yesterday (29th) calmly came forward to seek a solution with relevant financial institutions. He said that the key to resolving Taifu's financial difficulties lies in obtaining the NT$1.9 billion price paid by Singapore's Orchid Group to purchase the Taifu Uranus Building." The article notes: "太府目前較大筆的金融機構貸款，主要是以太府天王星大樓向國泰信託及中國信託銀行質借的十一億元. " From Google Translate: "Taifu's current largest financial institution loan is mainly the $1.1 billion pledged by Taifu Uranus Building from Cathay Trust and China Trust Bank." </li> <li> The article notes: "台灣金融資產服務公司將在9月20日舉行中國信託商業銀行暨慶豐商業銀行不動產拍賣，此次拍賣標的物位於台中市北區北屯路18號太府天王星大樓地下5樓至地上8樓. " From Google Translate: "Taiwan Financial Asset Services Corporation will hold the real estate auction of China Trust Commercial Bank and Ching Feng Commercial Bank on September 20. The auction subject matter is located on the ground floor of Taifu Uranus Building, No. 18, Beitun Road, North District, Taichung City. To the 8th floor above ground." </li> </ol></li> </ol></li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the Uranus building to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:19, 10 April 2024 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * There is plenty of coverage of Uranus building before the collapse, so I oppose a rename. The nominator said the article violates WP:SYNTH, which says, "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source. Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source." It is unclear how any of the sources are being combined to "imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source". "Synthesis of sources that mention individual facts is not an encyclopedia article" does not violate WP:SYNTH if the synthesis does not "imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source". Cunard (talk) 05:19, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep
 * Yeah... even tho i didnt see the sources i agree w cunard DANGA14 talk 14:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * IMHO one sentence of coverage in a source is just a trivial mention, not WP:SIGCOV. Certain structures, namely bridges and tunnels, it is trivial to find mentions in secondary sources, especially going back to close to the bridge's opening. Others, you can't. Awesome Aasim 17:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The sources I provided in the "Selection of three sources" section do not provide one sentence of coverage. They are lengthy newspaper articles about the Uranus building published in 1992, 1993 and 1995. Cunard (talk) 05:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The sources I provided in the "Selection of three sources" section do not provide one sentence of coverage. They are lengthy newspaper articles about the Uranus building published in 1992, 1993 and 1995. Cunard (talk) 05:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Keep Building famous in all part of worlds who became a symbol of hualien earthquake it ended up as a stock photo on the front page of many newspapers. 91.80.26.166 (talk) 14:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:RECENTISM as well. Better to make the topic about the collapse of the structure rather than the structure itself. Awesome Aasim 18:20, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment Why was a second AFD started on the same day that the previous AFD was closed? This is not how follow-up AFDs are typically handled and make it look like the nominator was simply unhappy with the results of the first AFD which was withdrawn. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:49, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I did not realize that there was a previous XfD until after I nominated it with Twinkle (I was going in blind). Maybe there should be a warning if a nomination for a specific page was recently closed. I only addressed the things after the fact. Awesome Aasim 17:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Isn't that there is this 1st AfD template at the talk page of the article already (to know that there was a previous AfD)?


 * Ok then. We assume this is an honest mistake of yours (that you didnt check/see that 1st AfD template in the article's talk page. Please retract/drop this 2nd AfD nomination. Chongkian (talk) 02:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.