Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/VMoney


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. The arguments to keep here are mostly based on demonstrating notability, while the arguments to delete are hinging on the article's promotional nature. Although this is not a clear cut case, I find the delete argument more persuasive. I would entertain a request to userfy. Vanamonde (talk) 10:07, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

VMoney

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

high degree of promotions. Coverage on Popular media are just for Investments of Script writing/ Coverage. Similar to larger scale Grofer, Delhivery, and other startup story. it is not notable at all. Light2021 (talk) 13:27, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep - While the page could use some improvements, the subject is covered significantly in reliable sources. Meatsgains (talk) 19:27, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:57, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:57, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing the WP:CORPDEPTH. Linking a Google search is not sourcing - quite a lot of those appear from the blurb to be PR-inspired or at best passing mentions. Could you please post the specific links you consider are quite definitely genuine organic third-party coverage showing WP:CORPDEPTH? - David Gerard (talk) 14:57, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Not a ton out there but below are a few additional sources:
 * Philstar
 * e27
 * Rappler
 * Deal Street Asia
 * Should be enough to qualify for notability. Meatsgains (talk) 17:49, 16 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:PROMO with a good dose of WP:TNT. Even if the company were notable (of which I'm not convinced), the copy is too promotional & there's no point in keeping the advertising messages in the article history. The sources offered above are not convincing; they speak about company plans and aspirations without any depth. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:44, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't you think WP:TNT is a little excessive? Certainly the article could be trimmed of some promotional fluff before "blowing it up" and starting over.

Meatsgains (talk) 02:13, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If the company were notable, I believe that it's better to restart from a clean slate, and let the draft go through AfC. This would ensure it's not a COI driven article, while eliminating marketing messages from the article history. I also subscribe to the spirit of WP:BOGOF: i.e. let's not encourage spammers by fixing up promotional articles for them. In any case, as I mentioned above, the notability of this entity looks dubious to me. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:32, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Article is well referenced, needs toning down but could still use more sources from Google news.--RioHondo (talk) 09:29, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hopelessly promotional; the necessary rewriting would remove almost al l the article, so the appropriate course is WP:TNT--remove it, and if any NPOV editor cares to write a proper article, then notability can be considered.  DGG ( talk ) 08:17, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 10:59, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. North America1000 16:20, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete I am not seeing sourcing available that is both sufficiently in-depth and adequately free of promotional tone such that intellectual independence can be inferred. VQuakr (talk) 02:57, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 10:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "Some high tech startups require even more BCP than normal. VMoney, which was founded in 2013 by CEO Ralph Santos, is an end-to-end financial platform, offering everything from debit Mastercards and scratch cards to point of sale systems and tap and pay solutions. As part of their BCP, Santos and the VMoney team keep track of where to direct their R&D by monitoring market needs, the challenges faced by their partners and other providers, and security advancements across the ecommerce world. The startup now works with some of the largest brands in the country, including Guess, Gold’s Gym, EasyTaxi, Mango, Mossimo, and TeamManila, so continuity of the services they do currently offer is of the utmost importance. ...  To test their systems, Santos said that the VMoney team performs integrity checks, quality checks, and security checks on their systems, applications, and databases – some of which are done on schedule, and some of which are done as random reviews. Santos expressed that the goal here is to not only meet regulatory requirements, but to exceed industry standards (which is a particularly fitting remark in the wake of the Jollibee situation)."  The article notes: "While Santos himself admits that VMoney has not yet reached renown in the minds of most Filipino consumers, the end-to-find financial solution is servicing some of the biggest brands in the country, including cd-r king, Gold’s Gym, Cold Stone Creamery, Team Manila, Mossimo, Samsung, and Agoda. VMoney provides such companies everything from point of sale systems and white-labeled debit cards. ... Santos tries to hedge his bets by offering a suite of products. The company offers such wearables as TAPnPay bracelets, TAPnPay stickers, and TAPnPay keychain (pictured below) that people can use to store and spend money with. ... Due to its impending David-versus-Goliath-style battle with Apple Pay in the Philippines, VMoney cannot discount anything that may give the firm an advantage. The firm, for example, has tried to appeal to the adherents of the green movement by allowing the wearables of VMoney users to be reuseable. VMoney users can give away or resell their wearables to friends, family, or colleagues, who can then activate, deactivate, and reactivate them as they wish."  The article notes: "Though not yet that well-known in the local and international tech scene, owing in part to CEO and co-founder Ralph Santos’s (pictured below) aversion to frills – you’d be hard-pressed to catch him at a startup schmoozing event – VMoney services some of the biggest brands in the country. Their client roster includes Guess, Mossimo, cd-r king, Vans, Gold’s Gym, Team Manila, Cold Stone Creamery, Mango, Agoda, and Samsung. Their partners include major banks like BPI and Security Bank, ecommerce platforms like DragonPay, and government institutions like the Department of Tourism. ... VMoney’s current valuation – including its assets, financials, revenue, customer base, and current standing and market potential – is pegged at US$105 million. The news of PLDT’s 10 percent buy-in to Rocket Internet, which gives RI a valuation of about US$4.5 billion, surely gave it a boost."  The article notes: "Currently, VMoney’s Philippine office has a team of 20 individuals who handles sales, marketing, and front-end development. The senior technical team and engineers are based out of Canada. ... Differentiating itself from services like Paypal, Venmo, and Apple Pay, VMoney enables businesses and consumers to send and receive funds in real-time using a browser or the myVMoney mobile app. The end-to-end structure allows transactions to be seamless, whether it’s for transferring money, paying bills, issuing employee payroll or buying prepaid load. The sign-up process is straightforward and simple: potential customers generate a user profile online, using an email address or mobile number, and upload a valid government ID. ... In addition to the mobile app, VMoney has a line of products (a sticker, bracelet, keychain and ring) that use Near Field Communication (NFC) technology. By tapping one of the NFC-powered devices onto a point-of-sale device (such as a smartphone), money is digitally transferred without ever having to handle cash. ... ...  Having actress/model Solenn Heussaff on board as the chief brand officer also helps with getting people to sign up and educating people about the benefits of the platform."</li> <li> The article notes: "Think Singapore’s EZ Link card, Hong Kong’s Octopus card, and Malaysia’s Touch n’ Go. VMoney developed the Philippine version of these cards: TAPnPASS. TAPnPASS is a stored-value card that makes use of near field communication (NFC) technology. You use the device to pay by simply tapping it on an NFC reader. You transfer funds to it using the same method: by tapping it on your mobile phone using the VMoney app. ... VMoney also has another NFC product, the TAPnPAY, which can be used to pay an unlimited amount. Transactions using TAPnPAY must be done online however, as there’s a need to validate customers’ account balances and enter a PIN for security. True to their goal of bringing convenience to consumers, VMoney’s TAP products come in different wearables like keychains, necklaces, bracelets, and rings, which can be activated and deactivated as the users please. ... The company has a range of products you can avail of like the VMoney Prepaid MasterCard, which allows you to shop online or at retail stores, and the VMoney Privilege Card that you can use within the network of VMoney-affiliated merchants if you want rewards."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow VMoney to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:42, 2 November 2016 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * {comment}} whether it is notable or not, the article is definitely not ready for the main namespace. It is hopelessly promotional and reads like brochureware rather than an encyclopaedic material. If it is retained then please move it to draft: namespace until it is significantly improved. The article also looks and smells like COI. — billinghurst  sDrewth  09:10, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment -- the coverage offered above is the CEO promoting the company; sample headlines:
 * VMoney CEO: Apple Pay is a cause for celebration, not fear, for Philippine payment startups". Tech in Asia.
 * Money CEO feels PLDT buy-in to Rocket Internet skyrockets his company's valuation
 * How Ralph Santos And Vmoney Are Disrupting The Financial Tech Sphere
 * This is in no way significant coverage & instead is only promotion. An encyclopedia article cannot be built from such sources. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete as I have not yet commented but I also concur that the sources above are literally advertising and it's actual sheerness that every single sentence starts with either something the company wants to advertise or a company quote about that, for example: "VMoney, which was founded in 2013 by CEO Ralph Santos, is an....offering credit cards", "VMoney keeps track of their business needs", "The startup now works with some of the largest brands in the country", "VMoney also has another NFC product", "True to their goal, VMoney", "To test their systems, Santos said that the VMoney team performs integrity, quality checks....", "The company has a range of products you can avail of like the....", "Having actress/model Solenn Heussaff on board as the chief brand officer also helps with getting people", "VMoney's Philippine office currently has 20 employees", "The sign-up process is straightforward and simple", "In addition to the mobile app, VMoney has a line of products", "the businessman hedges his bets", "VMoney’s current valuation"
 * ....and that's not surprising every single source listed would in fact be notorious for republishing company advertising and company interview quotes and that's exactly what they are, there was no actual journalism happening there and it shouldn't be mistaken for being that, especially when there was such damn blatancy of "what the company wants to advertise", and we should also not mistake for being "substantial, independent or significant" because advertising is advertising, regardless what publication chose to republish said advertising, because we are not that PR website, and we actually take articles and contents seriously. SwisterTwister   talk  06:05, 5 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete The sources are not reliable enough to satisfy WP:CORPIND. Out of the sources presented
 * TechinAsia, e27.co and DealStreetAsia are companies in Singapore which are more of a platform to connect startups and investors, rather than a traditional media. Unlike traditional media, they often redress press releases and attribute it to the company (or say, "xxx, CEO of this says...."). This doesn't help to satisfy WP:CORPIND as it is essentially any material written or published by the organization, directly or indirectly.
 * How Ralph Santos And Vmoney Are Disrupting The Financial Tech Sphere in BalikBayanMag (published by AsianJournal) - This is a community magazine which claims to be for the Filipino expat population in the US. It has a small circulation of 15000 (even that is self claimed), so I am not sure how reliable such a small publication would be. More importantly, the content is largely an interview of the founder.
 * VMoney redefines the world’s payment landscape. The Philippine Star - At first glance this seems reliable, until you actually read the stuff. Furthermore, in line with our goal to promote the entrepreneurial spirit among Filipinos, this new feature will instantly allow individuals and small entities to become loading facilities for these stored value cards without much capital outlay. The entire text is a press release which has not been properly redressed (the line I quoted, probably slipped through). This is cannot be used for notability per WP:CORPIND as it is material indirectly written by the company.
 * What entrepreneurs can learn from Jollibee’s ‘Chickenjoy’ supply problem- Published in Rappler which is essentially a social media/citizen journalism website - one of the many which has recently mushroomed in Southeast Asia. These allow anyone to signup as a reporter and start reporting - similar to Huffpost Blogs. If you look closely, the same person who put this rapper article also sent a similar article about VMoney to TechInAsia. We don't use these for notability.
 * Also, in general the coverage is largely about what the CEO says about the company. These are the kind of promotional sources we need to avoid. It is very tempting to simply look at sources and assume they are reliable. It takes a lot more time to actually scrutinise the sources individually. However, Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and we hold stuff to academic standards here. I believe closely looking at the sources is beneficial for the encyclopaedia. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:18, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Regarding the Rappler article, according to https://ph.linkedin.com/in/ezraferraz, Ezra Ferraz was a business columnist for Rappler from September 2013 to November 2015 and a correspondent for Tech in Asia from July 2014 and September 2014. At Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 185, four editors considered Rappler reliable and two editors considered it unreliable. An editor in the discussion noted that Rappler publishes corrections at http://www.rappler.com/bulletin-board/41751-corrections. From Identifying reliable sources, "One signal that a news organization engages in fact-checking and has a reputation for accuracy is the publication of corrections." That the columnist wrote a completely different article about VMoney for Tech in Asia does not make Rappler or Tech in Asia unreliable. Asian Journal has a list of editors at http://asianjournal.com/editorial-newsroom/, which also indicates it is reliable. Regarding Tech in Asia, from https://www.techinasia.com/about-us: "Tech in Asia counts Softbank, Y Combinator, Walden International, East Ventures, Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, and more amongst its list of investors. Our statement of ethics governs our principles regarding full disclosure and conflicts of interest." The page also lists Tech in Asia editors. Since Tech in Asia has editorial oversight and the backing of reputable investors, I consider it a reliable source. Cunard (talk) 07:16, 11 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.