Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valentina Seferinova


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. If content here is a copy vio then this is no further discussion. Spartaz Humbug! 09:27, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Valentina Seferinova

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BLP prod removed after references were added. However, the coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing General notability guideline and the more detailed Notability (biographies) requirement. The article also suffers from terrible layout/formatting, and poor grammar/vocabulary. It does not belong in the mainspace (through I am not saying we should delete it due to it looking like a bad draft; bad drafts can be improved - I am just not seeing any reliable references in this mess). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:21, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bulgaria-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi As I didn't know if you read that on Piotrus page, I copied the posts & I'm pasting them here. Would be grateful for reply.

Discussion:

Dear Piotrus

Why is Valentina Seferinova page suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia?

Quite a few reasons come to mind:

I have come across many other entries where (in my opinion & not only my opinion, but others too!) people haven't achieved & have not contributed to our musical knowledge as much as I have & still am trying to do.

Indeed many entries that I see in the Classical Music genre should not be there at all.

It has been my intention to bring back from 'the dead' many composers & their music.

It's composers & music that at their time was a significant part of the concert stage & people's lives. I have recorded and played live many long forgotten composers of different nationalities (Polish, Jewish, Swiss, Bulgarian etc etc). I'm not just focusing on Bulgarian music (because I've been born brought up there) but I'm trying to bring to life as many composers from different nationalities & countries that for many reasons were forgotten (or in some cases music was destroyed by Nazi's in their attempt to erase Jewish and Polish music and culture from the face of our planet! Similarly with Stalin in the second half of the 20th century and his attempts to complete Hitler's aims of crushing Jewish and polish culture) as much as I can.

Since the collapse of Communism has allowed these cultures to start investigating and putting things back together in their original and true context.

I'm not sure if you're a musician of any sort, or have an in depth knowledge of musical history but please try and see the significance of the composers listed on my entry. They have not been chosen on a whim. They all fall into the category of what I'm outlining. For the Poles - they have yet to re-discover who and what came after Chopin in terms of the development and progression of the classical music form!! (because of the cultural destruction they suffered).

It's absolutely the same for long lost composers with a Jewish heritage - they too suffered horrendously during the 20th Century.

I feel that unless we know of our past & our heritage, how will we be able to find the right path into the future?!

If we don't know where we came from (musically and philosophically) - how do we know where we're going; and what it all means? The development of modern music forms (both classical and modern) absolutely forms a lineage (like an ancestral tree; one composer/performer learns from his peers then passes on his knowledge and ideas to the generation that follows him or her) over the centuries.

The Polish composers Noskowski, Różycki, and Wieniawski are absolutely in that vein. Similarly the ethnically Jewish composers Raff, Jadassohn, and Brüll are themselves in that vein

Another reason: there have been so many people at concerts, on the Internet, YouTube, you name it, that have been saying after hearing some of the music I have recorded  & played live: 'Why haven't I heard of this before? It's beautiful! Where can we find out more...? Thank you for bringing this music to us!. ..'

Well, I'm trying (as others do too) & succeeding: Raff op2 No2 Romance I recorded for the first time ever (in history in fact) in 2002; it is now a well-established piece in the piano literature - included in the grade 6 Trinity exam board! Nowadays many other people are playing & recording the music I've discovered:

The Jadassohn concerto I recorded for the first time ever has subsequently been recorded again by the Hyperion label by another soloist and orchestra.

Similarly the Raff 2nd Sonata that I recorded for the first time ever (the term 'premiere recordings' is exactly what it says) has been recorded subsequently by another artiste by Naxos etc...

My recordings and myself are thus 'notable' in that they are the originals which others are judged by.

At the end I just want to add that I'm doing all this revival in the benefit of the new generation & future generations as when I was a student I had to learn about the music of composers without being able to hear a single note of it as there were no recordings available.

There are many piano performers who are listed on Wikipedia - and I don't know why it is so - because they do not appear to be 'notable' (your criteria) in any exceptional way for their performances.

May I humbly suggest that I have not just the performance qualifications - but the academic qualifications also - so much missing in others and their entries.

Although writing about my own achievements feels awkward, I feel the facts speak for themselves.

Regards

Valentina Seferinova

Master of Music - Theory; Assistant Professor of Music - Performance

(Married Name = Mrs Valentina Seferinova-Bradley; my British husband has always agreed to my retaining my maiden name for professional reasons - i.e.’ Valentina Seferinova’ has a better 'ring' about it than 'Valentina Bradley' !! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Visb723(talk • contribs) 07:13, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Moved from top, by — Revi 07:24, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

MLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC)Visb723MLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC) and small corrections by MLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus

Re proposed deletion of Valentina Seferinova on the grounds of lack of clear references. Have added 2 cite references for 'Valentina Seferinova' and the piano Duo 'Va I Ve' - each from the British & International Music Year Book 2015 - although both have been in this authoritative reference manual for in excess of 14 or 15 years. regards MLADENOVA (talk) 10:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 10:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus Re proposed deletion of Valentina Seferinova on the grounds of not notable. This addresses the question as to whether Valentina Seferinova is ‘notable’ or not. Claude Debussy (22 August 1862 – 25 March 1918) – a famous French composer, who, together with Maurice Ravel, he was one of the most prominent figures associated with Impressionist music, which endeavoured (mostly successfully) to re-create in music what Monet and others were achieving in the painting world. The French were very proud of Debussy – at last they had a composer of International standing to rank alongside the likes of Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc. So much so that they eventually turned his 3 storey terraced birth house in St Germain-en-Laye (the outskirts of Paris at the time) into a Museum dedicated to his life and works; a ‘shrine’ if you like. On the top floor was Debussy’s bedroom, together with his piano, which they turned into a small and intimate auditorium. From time to time the Trustees would cast around the world to invite a performer, or performers, who were known to be of the requisite quality to give the Debussy Anniversary recital. For Debussy ‘fans’ around the world, the pinnacle was to be seated in Debussy’s own auditorium on the anniversary of his birth – and listening to world class level performances of his music. Please bear in mind that this arrangement prevents people who want to perform there just ringing up and saying they’d like to play there. Such opportunities were to be by invitation only. In the autumn of 1998 – Assistant Professor Valentina, together with colleague Prof. Emilia Mihaylova, gave the first ever performance of Debussy’s complete works for 4 hands (1 piano) (known as ‘Integrale’) in Sofia the capital of Bulgaria. This performance was recorded and even today is the first and only CD recording of Debussy’s ‘Integrale’. I state that this is a notable achievement – and in keeping with her record, outlined above, of being the first pianist to record certain long lost – but important in the history and development of music, works. However this recording came to the attention of the Trustees of the Debussy House and Museum – and the pair of them were invited to give the 1999 Debussy anniversary recital on 21st August 1999. I ask you to take a look at website http://www.ot-saintgermainenlaye.fr/fileadmin/omt-site/document/Phototheque/MCD/Plaquette_C._Debussy_2014_GB.pdf- a website devoted to Debussy’s House and Museum. Please read the left hand panel; in the photograph please note the décor, the wall paper, and the photograph hanging on the wall (a photograph of Yvonne Lefebure – a famous French pianist – and to whom the auditorium is dedicated). Please now go to some YouTube videos on Valentina’s channel (e.g.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te7sn2BZjso; andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvCHHTgbhgQ; there are more). I hope you’ll notice that the décor and picture are exactly the same – thus proving Valentina’s performance credentials at this exclusive venue. It is true that the performers do not get paid for their recitals. It is simply the honour and professional recognition of the quality of their performances that they are playing for. There are countless professional pianist, who are perhaps more well-known because of their commercial success - (many on Wikipedia) who would give their right arm to be invited, even though there is no commercial gain – because it would be the professional endorsement to their Debussy performances that, as I say, they’d give their right arm for. But they have not received such an invitation. Bottom line – “your Debussy knowledge, understanding, interpretation, and performance has to be the best there is – world class. No exception” Valentina has received this notable accolade from the Trustees of the Debussy House and Museum – not only for her CD recording of Debussy’s Integrale – but her live performance as well. To give it some more notable context:- Debussy died in 1918 – Valentina’s performance was in 1999 – some 81 years later. Take out some years before the Trustees had established themselves and the recital programme; take out say 6 years of the Second World War; take out other years when it just didn’t happen – then there’s probably only a maximum of 60 or so performers worldwide who’ve received such an invitation and accolade. Valentina is one of those. In my mind that qualifies as ‘notable’. Regards PS - how do I know these things ? Because I was there for all of the events mentioned. MLADENOVA (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2014 (U — Preceding unsigned comment added by Visb723 (talk • contribs)


 * Delete - not a single link added to this article is reliable and independent of the subject. Bearian (talk) 21:39, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

It might not be 'Independent' - but by God it's 'Reliable' !! MLADENOVA (talk) 15:22, 12 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 15:22, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus

Re proposed deletion of Valentina Seferinova on the grounds of not notable.

This addresses the question as to whether Valentina Seferinova is ‘notable’ or not.

Sergei Rachmaninoff - 1873 – 28 March 1943) was a Russian composer, pianist, and conductor. Rachmaninoff is widely considered one of the finest pianists of his day and, as a composer, one of the last great representatives of Romanticism in Russian classical music.

At some time later after he died was formed The Rachmaninoff Society under the patronage of famous Russian Conductor and Pianist Vladimir Ashkenazy. It’s raison d’etre was to keep the memory and music alive of Rachmaninoff (as if this really needed doing!!) It’s membership was worldwide.

Each year it held it’s AGM (Annual General Meeting) – typically a weekend retreat lasting from a Friday evening through to the Sunday evening somewhere in the Northern hemisphere – typically USA/New York – but most often in the UK.

The organisers would cast around for someone suitable to give a ‘closed performance’ of Rachmaninoff’s works for the private benefit of members.

Again it would have to be a musician whose knowledge, understanding, interpretation, and performance was of the highest level worthy of the member’s attention.

Valentina was approached for the first time in April 1999 – her performance diary records:- ‘Closed’ recital performance of Rachmaninov cycles for the AGM of The Rachmaninoff Society (President: Vladimir Ashkenazy), Codshall, Nr. Wolverhampton.

The second time was in April 2005 – her performance diary records :- 2nd Recital for The Rachmaninoff Society's A.G.M (President: Vladimir Ashkenazy), and in the presence of 2 of Rachmaninov's Great Grandchildren - pieces by Rachmaninov (Moments Musicaux No. 3 in B minor, Op.16.; Moments Musicaux No. 4 in E minor, Op.16.): Skriabin (3 Pieces for Piano Op.2 [Etude; Prelude; Impromptu alla Mazurka]): Vladigueroff (Prelude from '3 Pieces for Piano', Op.15. Pessen [Song] from 'Bulgarian Suite', Op.21 No.2.; Rhapsodie 'Vardar' Op.16.).

At this performance (in London) she received a complete standing ovation.

“so what ?” you say. Well 2 of Rachmaninoff’s Great Grandchildren were in the audience – and you only have to ask yourself “just how many performances have they ever sat through to know which are the good performances or not !!”

She was invited back for an unprecedented 3rd time in 2008; but declined in favour of playing with partner Venera Bojkova, as 'Va i Ve', a 2 piano duet, for their September 2009 AGM.

As in the case of being invited to perform at the Claude Debussy House & Museum – exactly the same criteria applies.

It just has to be world class; nothing else will do.

Other professional musicians would give their right arm to be invited jut once to endorse their professional reputations.

But none of those featured on Wikipedia have.

Valentina has been invited, and performed not once, not twice – but three times.

That to my mind is ‘notable’.

PS the International Rachmaninoff Society ceased to be in 2013 – mainly due, it’s believed, to being no longer financially viable.

But the facts of Valentina’s appearances remain.

PPS - How do I know these things?

Because I was there in person.

Regards MLADENOVA (talk) 16:50, 10 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 16:50, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus I again address whether Valentina Seferinova is worthy of a Wikipedia entry; although this comment is slightly more difficult.

I have uploaded a private video to YouTube which I do not wish to be in the Public Domain for longer than is necessary.

The reason why is that the person featured is Benjamin Zander.

Whilst he was aware being recorded, I had, at the time, explained that it was for private purposes only. However because his comments were made at an event open to the public I believe his comments to be in the Public Domain (but the video isn’t if you can follow me !?)

Benjamin Zander is a British born American citizen - Conductor, and Musician.

At the time the video was made he was Conductor of the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra. He is a three times Grammy award nominee for various CD recordings made with orchestras under his baton.

A man of acknowledged significance in the Classical Music world.

On 21st July 1997 there was a chance encounter between Valentina Seferinova and himself at the Sinfonia Centre, Ouseburn Park, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK.

Valentina was rehearsing and playing Schubert’s Sonata in B flat major in front of an audience.

What happened turned out to be a sort of Master Class from Benjamin Zander.

The video is at Valentina & Benjamin Zander

(Sorry - I’ve had to do it this way to get around Wikipedia’s ‘black list’ of YouTube !)

It is myself behind the camera – and I am the lawful copyright holder of the video.

The video is some 46 minutes long.

It’s probable that you’re understandably too busy to watch it in full – so I will summarise :-

At 0:58 (video time) Benjamin Zander enters the Rehearsal Room/Auditrium.

At 1:50 Valentina is on the piano.

At 2:18 Benjamin Zander is announcing as part of a master Class colleague Valentina will play Schubert’s Sonata B flat major, saying “…I will interrupt because it’s a very long piece ..”.

From 2:46 Valentina plays.

At 7:27 Benjamin Zander rapturously interrupts Valentina with the words '''“ I’m sure you’re saying ‘What can he possibly say? It’s such beautiful music making. It’s so wonderful what you do.’” And to Valentina he say “What I can say to you – and this is an important thing for you to hear. You are a great artiste, - and a great pianist, - and you understand Schubert, - and you don’t always do what he says .. (with a wry smile), and quite often”. “When we get very accomplished and very masterful – as you are…” '''

They sit beside each other to investigate and discover what Is Benjamin Zander’s ‘take’ on the piece.

At 15:06 whilst discussing some technical aspects of the piece, Benjamin Zander remarks “There are probably 3 pianists on the face of the Earth who can do this - you’re one of them!”  (Possibly slightly tongue in cheek – but said nonetheless.)

It’s interesting to watch as the encounter progresses that whereas in the beginning Benjamin Zander was marginally critical – he becomes more and more ‘besotted’ with Valentina’s playing (25:00 and on) – and in the end is completely won over!! You watch – the body language and attitude changes as it progresses.

32:57 “Beautiful playing!”

Suggest you watch from 44:38

44:59 “That’s about a great artiste and a great musician themselves at the service of the music - 100%.”.

At 45:43 more fulsome praise “'''this was a great encounter - because you're a tremendous musician; and a great spirit; I mean huge, - and you have everything. Thank you for being available.”'''

Sooooooo – A 3 time Grammy Award nominee – who must have dealt with hundreds (?) of pianists rates her knowledge, understanding, and playing of Schubert to be amongst the top 3 in the world.

In my mind that’s ‘notable’

The difficulty I have is – how can I cite and prove his words when I don’t want the video to be in the Public Domain (even though his words are!)

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 20:53, 11 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 20:53, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Piotrus

So here we have a former child prodigy (her first public performances as a solo piano player, and orchestral soloist were when she was only 12 years of age – that’s notable) who went on to become a highly academically qualified award winning (see original entry) classical Concert pianist - which I suggest is notable in itself (Typically performers have the gift and talent of performance only)

I hope I’ve demonstrated that she is an acknowledged expert – i.e. in knowledge, understanding, interpretation and performance to a world class standard of at least 3 composers (Schubert; Debussy; Rachmaninov) of the Classical Romantic era.

In my mind this is notable; it is more typical that a performer will be an ‘expert’ in one composer only – if any at all.

I hope I’ve illustrated that she has probably contributed more to the further knowledge and understanding of long lost composers than anyone else in recent times – and has helped to fill the void in knowledge and understanding because of the cultural devastation and consequences of 2 of the world’s worst despots(Hitler and Stalin) of the 20th Century i.e. to Jewish heritage music; and to Polish music. She continues to this day with plans to be back in a Warsaw recording studio as early as next spring

She was principally involved in the rediscovery of a‘lost’ orchestral work of the British female composer Dorothy Howell.

I’m happy for you to have Valentina’s and my above posts reviewed by someone else whose knowledge of such things may be greater should you not be content.

For the Polish music aspect may I humbly suggest a contact with Jan Jarnicki of Acte Préalable in Warsaw, who is the principal in rediscovering, recording, and putting back together again Polish Classical music after Chopin [(email: actepre@wp.pl)].

If you are content – then may I humbly agree that Valentina’s entry be part of the United Kingdom, and Bulgaria Wikipedia projects – but at a higher level/significance than the ‘low level’ you are suggesting.

May I also suggest that if similar projects/portals exist for Poland, and Israel that Valentina’s entry be reflected there too.

AND THERE IN LIES OUR PROBLEM – BOTH Valentina and I are quite quite amateurs at this Wikipedia matter – we haven’t a clue how to go about things; and seek your maximum help and assistance in clearing up the mess of matters that brought Valentina Seferinova to your attention in the first place.

Please – a BIG HELP is needed !.

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 22:34, 11 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 22:34, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Userfy or delete It is easy to determine that the subject is indeed a musician who performs and records. I cannot, however, find any neutral-party reviews of her work. She is listed on album covers as "award-winning" but so far there is no source for this. Also note that some of the text of the article was taken verbatim from some album cover blurbs, which would in theory make them copyright violations. To the editor of the article, the first thing I would suggest is finding some (preferably English-language) articles about her and reviews of her work. This references must NOT be blogs, nor from her own web site, nor may they be promotional materials for her recordings or performances. You need to find a reliable music reviewer who has written about her work. And remember: every fact you include in the article must come from a third-party source, even those facts you know personally. LaMona (talk) 05:02, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dusti</b>*Let's talk!* 04:27, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

The comments that follow are also intended to answer Bearian's post above that there isn't a single reliable and independent link to support valentina Seferinova's article, when in fact there are, in fact many many. My problem has been, in trying to be editorially neutral in following Wikipedia guide lines, I felt they were too self promoting to be used.

Please advise in how they can be used to support the article.

MLADENOVA (talk) 21:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 21:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dusti

I get it and understand that Wikipedia must be rigorous in challenging any new submission to check its 'worthiness' - but sometimes it's not easy, particularly when relying on information that came into being PRIOR to wide spread use and acceptance of the Internet, to provide the independent reference via a web link; sometimes the referenced material exists only in the original documents held by the person concerned.

I respectfully note your relative youth at this moment to remind you that the availability of information via the web is a relatively new phenomenon for us of an older generation, certainly anything older than say 10 years can be difficult to substantiate by providing a web link. I think this is where the matter of 'Good Faith' has to come into play.

May I remind you that we're talking about someone who has academically achieved international recognition as 'Master of Music', and gone on to become Assistant Professor of Music - together with a reputation as a notable performer of different composers.

It seems to me very unlikely that she would sully her hard won and fought for reputation by actively lying about her achievements. But the truth of the matter that much of the evidence sought by yourself lies only in the physical documents that she holds as part of her CV. Having said that I will endeavor to meet the raising of the bar and provide answers to the points and recommendations that you offer.

I suppose it's only fair at this juncture to declare my relationship with the subject, Valentina Seferinova - she is my wife.

That should not automatically rule me out - because, at one stage in my own (non musical) career was Group Manager of a very large UK based Defence company - such that I understand the need for impartiality, and feel, by and large, that I'm able to be so (as required by Wikipedai).

To answer your observations on 'Award Winning', I list the following:-

Prizes/achievements awarded:

1980 (aged 11 years old) 4th Prize – ‘Svetoslav Obretenov (Bulgarian Composer) National Competition’.

1981 1st Prize – Music School Open Competition (for Bulgarian Music).

1984 Laureate and Gold Medal in the 6th. Bulgarian National Musical Competition.

1984 2nd Prize – Music School Open Competition (Bulgarian Music).

1985 1st Prize – Music School Open Competition (Modern Music).

1985 - 2nd Prize for Composing - Competition for Young Composers, Music School, Ruse.

1986 - 1st Prize – Music School Open Competition (Russian Music).

1987 - 2nd Prize - National Competition for Chamber Music (as piano accompanist with Violin - Grieg Sonata Opus No. 45 in C Minor).

1987 - 1st Prize – Music School Open Competition (French Music).

1992 - 2nd Prize (by 1 point in 200 - Instrumental, Solo, Open Class) International Eisteddfod, Cleveland, UK. (Honours graded for both Chopin: Fantasie F-moll Op. 49, and Debussy: L’Isle Joyeuse).

1993 - 1st Prize - (Diploma and Title "Laureate of “Earth and Music”) in Open International Competition in Bulgaria.

1993 - 1st Prize – National Academy Open Competition.

The original documents (proof?) are held by us. This, of course, makes it difficult, if not impossible' to reference these documents (unless you know better?) in the subject Article. However copies can be provided if challenged, or as necessary.

It seems to me that there has been no breach of copyrights - because the source of the quotes on various CD covers is her own Biography !!

Would welcome any comments or feedback at this juncture.

I hope to be adding more by way of independent assessments of her performance work.

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 14:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 14:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dusti

You suggest finding some independent reviews of her work.

Easy.

Here is an unedited one from The American Record Guide dated June 2003 referring to a review of one of her CDs (Joachim Raff), we have it in hard copy filed under the old fashioned title of 'Press Cuttings' - but it's not available on-line at their site (or you have to pay for access to their Archive).

How do I overcome that problem?

As a American resident you may be able to check it out.

"This release introduces a new company and, I believe, the first recordings of three Raff piano works. Joachim Raff, who lived from 1822 to 1882, was one of the important Swiss composers of the 19th Century who faded into obscurity in the 20th Century but has recently begun to make a come-back. To learn more about Raff, see the Raff Society's web site at www.raff.org, which also has a complete listing of recordings and their reviews. I must admit to being slightly put off by this recording at first, for there are very loud extraneous low-frequency noises that I concluded are the pedals being enthusiastically activated by Ms Seferinova. These are unfamiliar works, but she seems to have them in her grasp and really plays very well. The problem can be partly cured by cutting the bass response. Also, it is worst in the second sonata. The Fantasy-Sonata was published as Op. 168 and is the second of three. It lasts about 17 minutes. The three movements may not have any truly memorable big themes but are very well written and full of exciting pianism. The Sonata in E-flat may have been published as Op. 14 but he re-wrote it in 1881 and it became his last published piano work. It was almost completely re-written and little remains of the earlier work. It has four movements lasting some 32 minutes. It is technically adept and quite brilliant. Much the same can be said for his three Morceaux, which were originally published as Op. 2 but were completely revised in 1877. They are pleasant morsels that require a refined piano technique.

Ms Seferinova has a grand technique and plays brilliantly. The recording is very wide range and well placed. The notes are excellent."

BAUMAN

Carl Bauman - American Record Guide - May/June 2003 issue Vol.66 No.3

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi

To balance the review above here's another one from the USA - this time Paul Turok owner of Turok's Choice based in New York.

Again it only exists in hard copy. I can't find a website for the publication anymore - it seems to have been taken over by the Mega Classical CD label Naxos in circa 2006. However here's the un-edited review in Issue No. 147, of September 2003:-

"Valentina Seferinova takes on a difficult task, making something exciting out of Joachim Raff's highly respectable but hardly compelling Fantasia-Sonata, Op.168, Grand Sonata Op.14, and Trois Morceaux, Op.2. She is a fluent pianist, and does a fine job, until the dreadful fugue that takes up most of the finale of Op.14.  Like the listener, she seems to go on automatic pilot, coping with one academic entry of the theme after another - one of the reasons Raff, despite many attempts to resurrect his music, remains more a "name" than a living musical force.”

Paul Turok of Turok's Choice, NY, USA, Issue No. 147, September 2003

(comment by Valentina Seferinova - his opinion seems to be highly coloured by a dislike of Raff!!!)

Please try and distinguish between comments on the music itself, and on the performer!

Now I ask you to go the first of many on-line references to Valentina's work, performances and recordings.

Please go to the website of Joachim Raff society; surely THE independent experts on all matters relating to the Romantic Era composer.

Please go to http://www.raff.org/records/reviews/reviews.htm

It's a lengthy list of all the CDs that have featured music by Joachim Raff - and their reviews of those CDs.

Note - it's only those with a green tick that they recommend; so they are not a 'buy them all' uncritical outfit.

About 3 quarters of the way down is a CD by Valentina and a green tick. Clicking on a link takes you to one of the most comprehensive reviews of any recordings !.

It takes you to this page http://www.raff.org/records/reviews/piano/01.htm.

I take this quote from the text "'''The fantasy side of op.168 is well brought out by Seferinova. She emphasises the improvisatory feel of the piece's start, presenting the opening Allegro patetico section almost as a series of musings on the motto theme which dominates the whole work. Her accuracy is ably demonstrated by the frantic figurations in which Raff indulges sporadically. The delicacy of the central Largo is a joy - there is something affectingly childlike in the simplicity of her treatment of these lovely variations, before the stormy concluding Allegro molto is ushered in by the last of them (a nice touch this by Raff). Perhaps Seferinova could have risked a more turbulent and Lisztian approach to this final section - one suspects that one should have been left with the impression of a "bigger" work than comes across here. Overall, though, this is an intelligent and poetic performance which grows on you with repeated listening. Her handling of the tempi in particular show what a good feel she has for the architecture of the whole three-section structure. '''

and "This excerpt, the end of the Romance from the Trois Morceaux, shows the delicacy of Seferinova's playing"

and "Seferinova plays it beautifully, investing it with a tenderness and, at the last, a tangible sense of faint regret. The central Romance features one of those immediately attractive Raffian melodies which linger stubbornly in the memory"

and "Once again, playing of immense charm and delicacy. The concluding Valse also begins uncertainly, but soon gets into its stride and here one is reminded of the many such works to which Raff turned his hand so effectively. There is more to it than there seems at first but even so Seferinova has it skip away seemingly without effort."

and "This seriousness is well conveyed by Seferinova and so her relaxing into the lyrical second subject is especially welcome. She makes light of the work's difficulties and the episodic sombreness and sometimes dense counterpoint are nicely contrasted with the more lyrical passages and intermittent silvery cascade of notes. A very satisfying interpretation of an atypical Raff movement"

and "In the Larghetto third movement, Seferinova shows that she understands that Raff slow movements aren't that slow. Although she revels in the long drawn out opening melody, she isn't afraid of piling on the drama in the central section and makes this (for Raff) uncharacteristically reserved slow movement a piece of stature and a worthy counterweight to the portentous opening Allegro"

and in summary from THE Raff experts :- "In sum, Valentina Seferinova demonstrates that she has Raff's measure. If she sometimes seems reluctant to pull out every last dramatic stop, she is undeniably impressive in the more lyrical passages and it is to be hoped that this issue is a success for Cahoots so that we can hear more Raff from her in the future."

And they award her performance 4 and a half stars out of 5 !!

So 3 different reviews of the same CD; there are differences in the opinion of the music itself - but all 3 acknowledge Valentina's performance to be of the highest level.

So not only is she an acknowledged expert in Debussy, Schubert, Rachmaninov, but Joachim Raff as well (see hidden posts above).

Another reviewer said of this CD performance :- "Valentina Seferinova makes a strong case for this largely forgotten repertoire, plays it with stylish finesse ....."

Please - how do I reflect this - and use the Joachim Raff Society's links on Valentina's article without it appearing self promotional ?

Help and advice please.

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 19:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 19:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi again

An orchestral CD featuring Valentina as a soloist with orchestra is "British Composers Premiere Collections Vol. 4 - Dorothy Howell Piano Concerto" on the Cameo Classics label.

This was reviewed by the independent American based website 'Classical Lost and Found'. The reviewer is an American named Bob McQuiston. His Crocks Newsletter of 21 December 2012 at http://www.clofo.com/Newsletters/C121221.htm has the following text about Valentina "The opening concert selections feature committed performances by the Orion Symphony Orchestra under Toby Purser with pianist Valentina Seferinova in top form for the Howell." There follows more positive text referring to Valentina's performance of the piece

How do I use that on Valentina's article without appearing to be self promotional?

American Bob McQuiston of Classical Lost and Found is also a reviewer of another of Valentina's CDs, 'Music of 19thC Jewish German Composers' - Orchestral' at http://www.clofo.com/Newsletters/C090609.htm where he states " ... concerto soloist Valentina Seferinova (Jadassohn) is magnificent"

How do I reference that without it looking self promotional?

A review of the same CD by Rob Barnet of the independent 'Music Web International' at http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Dec09/brull_cc902627.htm#ixzz1vX7lZZsx sated "In Jadassohn’s Piano Concerto we are treated to a stormy attack. Heroic shrapnel flies every which way in repeated evocations of the Liszt and Schumann piano concertos. Valentina Seferinova is fully in charge and attacks the solo part with great romantic flourish. Her stonily commanding tone is unmistakable."

The unmistakable implication of his remarks is that he is very familiar as a reviewer with Valentina's performances.

How do I reference that without it looking self promotional?

I somewhat pass over a controversial review of another of Valentina's CDs (Zygmunt Noskowsi - Piano Works 1) by Jonathan Woolfe at http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Nov09/Noskowski_Piano1_APO188.htm, mainly because Valentina disputes some of his remarks ("The first is quite tough and Seferinova sounds a little stretched by its demands".  To which Valentina replies "Oh no I wasn't!"). Although he did remark in his summary "The performances are enjoyable ..."

A thorough in-depth review of yet another of Valentina's CDs is by Steve Arloff, again at the independent reviewers at http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Apr13/Rozycki_Vol1_AP0263.htm

He has quite positive remarks to make and concludes by making these comments about Valentina's performance:- "The present disc is played by Bulgarian pianist Valentina Seferinova. She is highly thought of by the label’s producer Jan Jarnicki and with good reason for she has made a convincing argument for this unjustly neglected composer."

How do I reference that without it looking self promotional?

His comments are apposite in that one of Valentina's declared missions is to rediscover music that was either suppressed or lost due the cultural upheavals in Europe of the 20th Century due to Hitler and Stalin's attempts to eradicate Polish and Jewish ethnic culture (including it's music. remember Hitler's declaration of the supremacy of German music?)

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 20:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 20:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi again

So having provided independent assessors/reviewers of some of her recorded works/performances - I now turn to her live performances.

To be absolutely honest there's not as many as for her recordings; why?

Well - most are newspaper/magazine reviews which we have as hard copy 'press cuttings' because some of them are before widespread use of the Internet; and even today not all newspapers/magazines publish on-line.

However here is one by Bob Briggs at the independent on-line reviewers at http://www.musicweb-international.com/sandh/2010/Jul-Dec10/remembrance1111.htm of Valentina performing as a guest soloist at London's Cadogan Hall (a well known 'second tier' venue in London; Albert Hall, and Royal Festival Hall being 'first tier') on 11th November 2011 in a performance of Dorothy Howell's Piano Concerto in D minor.

I quote "Valentina Seferinova was a most persuasive soloist in Howell’s Concerto – proving her belief in the work she played from memory ..".

Just for the heck of it you can judge the audiences reaction to her performance for yourself by going http://valentinaseferinova.com/VideoPages/Concertante/HowellVideo.html (I've done it this way to try and circumvent Wikipedia's 'black listing' of YouTube videos !)

You don't have to watch the whole 8 and half minutes of the video - just fast forward to 6:53.

I think 'enthusiastic' describes the audience reaction - leading to 2 'call backs'.

Here is review of another orchestral performance (Grieg's classic Concerto for piano and orchestra in A minor op.16 ) by Mike Allen of The Portsmouth News - http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/what-s-on/gigs-music/review-havant-symphony-orchestra-at-hayling-island-community-centre-1-5517177.

Although the thrust of his article was on some politics associated with the orchestra he was still able to make a positive comment on Valentina's performance; I quote "Bulgarian-born Valentina Seferinova, now living at Waterlooville, had to work hard to try to secure the depth of tone she sought from the community centre’s piano in the Grieg concerto, but nothing could disguise the freshness of her phrasing or depth of her musical instincts."

The orchestra's chairman's newsletter had this to say about the very same performance of Valentina "An outstanding highlight was Valentina Seferinova’s performance of the Grieg piano concerto, especially the beautiful and moving slow movement"; go http://www.havantorchestras.hampshire.org.uk/newsoct13.php.

Continuing on about Edvard Grieg's classic Concerto for piano and orchestra in A minor op.16 - which has been played by countless number of soloists, with a countless number of orchestra's to a countless number of audiences - I ask you - and anyone else reading this post, just for the heck of it, to become a reviewer yourself!

You don't have to know anything about classical music; you don't have to know anything about Edvard Grieg. All you need to know is that if an audience has been particularly happy or impressed by a particular performance - then by their applause or shouts will let it be known they'd like an encore.

Normally performers know almost immediately by the applause level whether an encore is appropriate or not - the etiquette of a performer is to leave the flowers/bouquet behind to signify to the audience that they've heard and will respond to an 'encore call'.

Typically in an orchestral situation the conductor and soloist will return to play a reprise/encore of the final movement of the concerto that being played.

Every once in a while something else, something notable, will happen.

Watch Valentina's performance of Grieg's master piece (with a different orchestra) at http://valentinaseferinova.com/VideoPages/Concertante/GriegVideo.html

You don't have to watch the whole 39 minutes of the video!

Just fast forward to 30:00 to see and hear what a 'rapturous standing ovation' looks and sounds like !

Follow it as it unfolds in front of an audience of 500 or so strangers who'd never heard or seen Valentina play before

You'll notice that even the conductor didn't come back !!

Because even he knew the audience were calling for Valentina!

So to satisfy the audience she had to play a solo piece!

I challenge you - to search YouTube, the Internet for another recorded example of what you are witnessing!

You wanted independent evidence of Valentina's performance level!

How about 500 independent money paying souls giving their opinion as to whether they've had their monies worth, or not?

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Valentina Seferinova

Summary:
 * KEEP

I feel that I/we have successfully answered all the ‘challenges’ made to her Wikipedia article.

Former child prodigy who, (unusually/notably), went on to achieve high academic success – internationally recognised Master of Music (Theory), and Assistant Professor of Music (Performance).

Evidence of her ‘award winning’ status provided.

Independent and verifiable 3rd party references provided (at length :) – sorry, especially to Piotrus) to support the statement that she is Internationally noted for her understanding, interpretations, and live performances of Classical Romantic era composers Debussy, Rachmaninoff, Schubert, and Raff; and has, by invitation, performed live at significant relevant venues.

Noted for, in co-operation with different recording labels, her re-discovery, analysis, and world premiere recordings of the works of Jewish ethnic composers; and Polish composers (to help answer the question “Who and what came after Chopin?”) whose works were destroyed/suppressed/banned in the attempts of cultural destruction in Europe of the 20th Century caused by Nazism and Stalinism. This work and project continues

Independent and verifiable 3rd party assessments of both her recorded work, and live performances provided (at length – again sorry to those who fell asleep) which are overwhelmingly supportive of her notable talent. (But I don’t know how to refer to this ‘evidence’ in her article without appearing to breach Wikipedia’s rules on not being, or appearing to be, ‘self-promotional’).

I don’t know how Wikipedia works – but I note that the ‘Mobile’ version of her article has been free from caveats, conditions, comments, etc for the last few days suggesting to me that an ‘Administrator’ has already approved her Wikipedia article.

Can someone please do the same to the Desktop version.

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 17:09, 20 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 17:09, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

PS - go http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/what-s-on/gigs-music/the-nominees-on-the-guide-awards-shortlist-are-revealed-1-5734985 - Text at top of the article reads :- "For weeks the votes have been pouring in, with post arriving every day and hundreds of readers going online – so now we can reveal the shortlist".

Scroll to bottom of page to BEST CLASSICAL MUSIC ACT nominees. There are 6 'acts'. Do you recognise any name(s) ??

Q.E.D. !

Regards

MLADENOVA (talk) 20:41, 20 December 2014 (UTC)MLADENOVAMLADENOVA (talk) 20:41, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


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