Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valentina Vlasenko (Subbocheva)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. There is a consensus among neutral editors that there is not notability for this person. Different Wikipedias have different rules so this person may be notable in other languages. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Valentina Vlasenko (Subbocheva)

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Does not meet notability requirements. Appears to have been written by family member, only sources are pamyat-naroda documents (but literally millions of soldiers have their documents on that website). Not awarded Hero of Soviet Union or qualifying for notability in any other way that differentiates her from the many other WWII military surgeons. PlanespotterA320 (talk) 15:32, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. PlanespotterA320 (talk) 15:32, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:15, 17 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Unfortunately fails GNG. —МандичкаYO 😜 16:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Not delete
 * During WWII (from September 1942 to May 1945), Valentina Vlasenko (Subbocheva) performed several thousand surgical operations, which are confirmed by documents. In reality, she performed much more operations, but many documents were not preserved. She worked not in a hospital, but in a medical battalion, directly near the battlefield, constantly risking her life. The operations she urgently performed in the battlefield saved the lives of at least several hundred soldiers.
 * There are articles on the WIKI about female snipers who killed more than one hundred Nazis (Nina Lobkovskaya, Ziba Ganiyeva), but there is no less contribution to the victory over fascism made the woman who saved the lives of hundreds of soldiers. Not everything can be compared, but when you read an article about a heroic woman who saved 74 Jewish children (Saide Afirova), it is worth remembering those who saved the lives of hundreds of wounded.
 * Instead of deleting an article about a front-line surgeon, one should write articles about other doctors who saved the lives of the wounded in the war.--Ввласенко (talk) 14:58, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * But what distinguishes her from the other front-line surgeons who did thousands of surguries? And why are the only sources the pamyat naroda documents (which do no define notability at all)? If she were notable she would have sufficient coverage in secondary sources about the feats credited to her - but the article has ZERO secondary sources. We cannot take the word of uncited documents that are missing that she was a top surgeon - we need secondary sources (like books, newspapers, and magazines) describing her feats. I am also under the impression you are related to her, and writing articles about family members, especially those who are not notable, is highly frowned upon. The reasons Nina Lobkovskaya, Ziba Ganiyeva, and Saide Afirova, are eligigle for articles is not the raw number of lives they saved or Nazis they killed - it's the media coverage they got. Those three all are described sufficiently in secondary sources cited in their articles, unlike Vlasenko. The highest military award she received was the Order of the Patriotic War 2nd class - not even remotely close to meeting notability standards considering literally millions were awarded it as a jubilee medal. Sorry, but your grandmother just doesn't make the cut. If we considered her notable, then we would have to allow literally millions of low-notability insignificant biographies about low-ranking, low-publicity military personell written by grandkids, which would turn Wikipedia into moypolk.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 15:55, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Since you read in Russian, I use it to express myself more accurately. You can answer me in English.
 * Вы правы, предположив, что я член семьи Валентины Власенко, она моя мать, что не ограничивает меня в правах участника ВИКИ.
 * Сначала об источниках.
 * 1.Источники, перечисленные в разделе References, являются официальными документами Красной Армии. Они использованы как первичные источники, именно в них указаны действия Валентины Власенко (Суббочевой), за которые она была награждена.
 * 2.Два печатных источника приведены в списке литературы. Они являются вторичными источниками. В них также описываются действия Валентины Власенко (Суббочевой) во время войны.
 * 3.Ещё два вторичных источника указаны в разделе External links.
 * Таким образом, есть надёжные первичные источники и есть вторичные источники, в том числе печатные, следовательно, формальные требования выполнены.
 * Теперь о принципах.
 * Значимость энциклопедии, как системы знаний в различных отраслях, определяется широтой и надёжностью представленной информации, независимо от её современной публичности. Вы же подчёркиваете, что в ВИКИ должны быть упомянуты только публичные, освещаемые в СМИ люди, и если следовать этому принципу, то информация в ВИКИ, в частности, о людях, окажется вторичной и сиюминутной, следовательно, быстро устаревающей. Такие критерии как ранг наград, стареют очень быстро, а общечеловеческие ценности времени не подвластны. Историческая информация далеко не всегда является популярной, что не уменьшает её содержательности. Часто она оказывается важной с точки зрения сохранения источников, что тоже является одной из целей энциклопедии. Кроме того, принцип минимизации ограничений, используемый в ВИКИ, стоит рассматривать как возможность увеличивать содержание надёжной информации.
 * Замечу, что упоминание «мойполк» (возможно, «бессмертный полк») неуместно, поскольку к российской пропаганде статью причислить никак нельзя, она представлена только в английской и украинской ВИКИ, но не в русской.--Ввласенко (talk) 09:26, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but she just doesn't meet notability requirements. We can't give every surgeon awarded the Order of the Patriotic War who did a lot of surguries an article. While her feats are impressive they are by no means noteworthy or distinguishing enough for Wikipedia.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 14:07, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:46, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:48, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete The sourcing doesn't prove that WP:GNG is met and the subject does not meet the standards of WP:SOLDIER. As pointed out above her actions during the war, while certainly something to be proud of, are not particularly distinguishing and Wikipedia is not a place to write memorials to loved ones who have passed. Best, GPL93 (talk) 01:22, 24 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.