Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valley Center Western Days


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. A clear consensus among experienced editors that this does not meet notability guidelines. I did not place much weight on the arguments of the obviously conflicted editors. Any editor may add a redirect as part of the normal editing process.Malcolmxl5 (talk) 12:43, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Valley Center Western Days

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Festival does not seem to meet WP:EVENT. Minimal coverage, most of it from the community itself (WP:ROUTINE). Does not seem to meet criteria for inclusion. Majora (talk) 17:25, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. I note that there is coverage already in Valley Center, California, and that seems sufficient. I'm not sure a redirect is beneficial. —C.Fred (talk) 17:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Do Not Delete Page. Event is an historical event over 66 years and listed within local museum and only newspaper and City of San Diego Events Guide


 * http://www.valleycenter.com/westerndays
 * https://www.vchistory.org/valley-center-western-days/
 * —Justin760 (talk) 17:47, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Note. A parallel event, Valley Center Days, just had an article created. I have tagged it for speedy deletion; if necessary, I will start a separate AfD for it. —C.Fred (talk) 18:21, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. This is not a sanctioned event by the official event organizers and there are other news sources in Valley Center recognizing Valley Center Days as the official event name  . Valley Center Western Days is affiliated with Roadrunner Publications, who is trying to trademark the name under Roadrunner Publications, inc. and being legally contested by the official event organizers . All sources (Valley Center History Museum website, valleycenter.com and Valley Roadrunner) attributed to Valley Center Western Days are owned by Roadrunner Publications, and Justin760 is the owner and publisher of the Roadrunner newspaper, therefore page is obsolete due to name change. Vchero (talk) 19:15, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Note. Links provided by Vchero to ValleyCenterHappenings are to a blog, not a real legally adjudicated newspaper. The agenda is apparent of this user trying to vandalize pages that have been active since 2009. —Justin760 (talk)
 * Note. Links provided by Justin760 are self-published. He owns and manages both websites, valleycenter.com and vchistory.org, and Valley Center Happenings is to a verified e-news source that he refuses to recognize due to his ownership of Roadrunner Publications. If it is a blog, please cite the source that you found that. It is clear that Valley Center Western Days is self-promotion of a privately owned business and has been since it's posting. Valley Center Western Days is not affiliated with any event or community organization, only the newspaper, Valley Roadrunner. There was no Valley Center Western Days parade, rodeo, or festival this year as the name's use is discontinued. Vchero (talk) 20:12, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Note. I have recently discovered that other pages created and managed by him, Roadrunner Publications and Valley Center History Museum, have been marked for deletion due to blatant advertising. He deleted the notices and the pages are still up. Vchero (talk) 20:31, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * do not delete As the original creator of this article, I was notified of the flag. This article is for an event that has been running for 66 years as of last week. After reviewing the history log, this new account vchero was just created and according to their contribution log has been making a lot of unnessesary changes, accusations, and now a new page that appears to be slanderous. All actions by this user seem to be focused directly towards an individual. The Western Days event can be found throughout the Internet, confirmed by many news sources. This vchero account refers to Roadrunner numerous times, but there's no mention of that company on the Western Days article. In addition, with the last note made, now it appears they are trying to have our local museum page removed. I agree with the comment made earlier that there's an apparent agenda present and doesn't belong on Wikipedia.  The article has been active since its creation in 2009 with no issues. Since it appears the malicious changes have been rolled back, I would suggest protecting the page as is.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vcwd (talk • contribs) 05:19, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Note to everyone: Alright just so we are all aware of how deletion discussion work here. It is not a place for clearly conflicted editors to fight it out. Deletion discussions are also not a vote but a decision based on Wikipedia policy and guidelines. If you all can't come up with something that proves that the event meets what is outlined at WP:NEVENT, nothing you say is going to change the fact that the article does not meet our criteria for inclusion and will be deleted. So please, either find something or accept it for what it is. --Majora (talk) 05:25, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - A small-town festival is not likely to have independent notability. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 05:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Note: First of all, many affiliates of Roadrunner Publications are cited, such as Valley Center History Museum. Also, the only organization that recognizes Valley Center Western Days is Roadrunner Publications (Times Advocate, Valley Roadrunner, etc). Here is proof that he is the owner of the Valley Roadrunner and Roadrunner publications on another one of his self-promoting wiki articles, here is proof that he is attempting to trademark the name "Valley Center Western Days" and is being legally contested , here is proof that he purchased ficticious business names for events, organizations, and businesses he does not own   , here are editorials on another news source condemning his actions  , here is other news sources and community organizations recognizing the event as "Valley Center Days"      ,  here is an article asking for Valley Center Days parade entries using the correct website , here is the announcement for the name change on another news source in town , here is where he 'donates' the trademark "Valley Center Western Days", which he DOES NOT OWN, to the Valley Center History Museum (whose website he owns and manages) , although he still filed the trademark under Roadrunner Publications, Inc. , this is his OWN PUBLICATION claiming that Valley Center Days is the new name for the event and that he owns and manages westerndays.org, which is not the offical website , and here is the official Valley Center Days website, owned and maintained by the cordinators of the true event . If this is still not enough for you, then I have no idea what could convince you that Justin760 is posting articles on wikipedia for his own financial gain. He even acknowledges the change in his own newspaper . I urge you to delete all wikipedia articles he has started that reroute to his newspaper with his self published sources, including Valley Center Western Days, Valley Center History Museum, and Valley Roadrunner, as they are blatant advertising and meant to deceive the community. I would not mind any of my created articles being deleted as long as these falsified ones are as well. Vchero (talk) 06:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete and redirect  to Valley Center, California. The fork Valley Center Days has been nominated for speedy deletion per A10 and rightly so. It duplicated everything in the original version of this article with the exception of the "Name change" section. See ] → . Until that "new"article is deleted or redirected I have rewritten that section. This was entirely unacceptable to state in Wikipedia's voice. It also used original research and primary sources. I have also rewritten the "History" section of both this article and the fork as they were copyvio, copied verbatim from here. The business about one of the recent editors of this article using it to publicise his newspaper The Valley Roadrunner or websites is spurious. It has never been added to this article by name or as a reference. Note also, that in this article the name "Western Days", and use of westerndays.org as the official website long predates,  the acquisition of the newspaper by Justin Salter, who only acquired it in late 2015 . The rival publication Valley Center Happenings is an e-publication, but not a blog. However, when it comes to self-publicising note these additions to Valley Center, California by the now-blocked User:VCHappenings. The link to Valley Center Happenings has since been re-added by IPs and at least one other participant in this discussion . I suggest you all cut it out, or a sockpuppet investigation will.  As to the notability of this event, which is the only issue of relevance to this discussion, the event receives annual coverage in the Valley Center edition of the San Diego Union-Tribune and has done since at least 2001 . But don't think that's enough to qualify for a stand-alone article. This is a local festival in a very small town, with press coverage only at county level. The relevant key information belongs as a sub-section in Valley Center, California with redirects from both names. Voceditenore (talk) 10:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-notable. Unless, of course, we want every parade held in every small town in the northern hemisphere to have ts own article space. Muffled Pocketed  14:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * What do you mean he never added his newspaper by name? All the articles he has created cite "valleycenter.com" (which is the Valley Roadrunner site, which he owns) or "vchistory.org" (which is the Valley Center History Museum site, which he also runs and owns.) He did own westerndays.org before he purchased the Roadrunner, and he only purchased the newspaper so he could publish things against the entire festival. He owns many small businesses' websites in town because he pretends to be really nice and run the site for you, but it you ever want to contribute as well, he will suddenly claim all rights and continue to publish false information. As I have stated, westerndays.org used to be the official website, but when he began publishing incorrect vender and contestant appplications, the organizers found it necessary to change. Redirecting "Valley Center Days" to an outdated event name with information linking back to the Roadrunner completely defeats the purpose of the name change and only gives more power to Justin, especially considering my page has correct information. The event organizers do not want to be associated with Western Days at all, which means that Valley Center Days is not, and never will be, Valley Center Western Days. So please, to save everyone time, Just delete "Valley Center Western Days" and "Valley Roadrunner", and put the correct information in "Valley Center, California" so it is not misleading and claiming that it is still Western Days. westerndays.org is no longer the official website, it used to be, but because of the Roadrunner, they were forced to open another website. All of his websites and articles will appear long standing because it only changed to Valley Center Days (for the ENTIRE event, not just the parade) this year. "Valley Roadrunner" isn't notable, neither is Valley Center Days (or the past rendition of it, Valley Center Western Days), so all should be removed. Vchero (talk) 15:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Vchero, I said that the Valley Roadrunner was not added either as a link or a reference to this article, which is the one under discussion. Roadrunner Publications has already been deleted via this AfD. If you feel that Valley Roadrunner or Valley Center History Museum do not meet the notability guidelines, then nominate them for deletion. Once again, we are not interested in the details of your personal feud with the proprietor of that newspaper. We are discussing whether this article (Valley Center Western Days) is of sufficient notability for a stand-alone article. That is the sole criteria that will be used. In the highly unlikely event that it is kept, the appropriate place to discuss the article's future content and name is at Talk:Valley Center Western Days, not here. The appropriate place to discuss the content of Valley Center, California is at Talk:Valley Center, California, not here. Voceditenore (talk) 16:44, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Voceditenore Okay, I apologize for bringing up the other articles. He did not cite Valley Roadrunner because the other two websites, westerndays.org and vchistory.org, are owned and managed by him as well, and they bring you back to Valley Roadrunner eventually. Westerndays.org publishes false information regarding the event, and the cordinators are trying their best to separate Valley Center Days and Valley Center Western Days. The main difference is, Valley Center Days is the festival, parade, and rodeo spanning 2016 and beyond (or it might change again, who knows- the event's name has changed many times in the past and subject to again). Valley Center Western Days was the name of the event from 1968-2015 and is no longer affiliated with any producers of the event. They are the same event, but Valley Center Days is the most current rendition of it. The information listed on this article is outdated and the event isn't notable enough on a global scale, anyway. Valley Center Days is just a tiny, non-profit event put on by our local Optimist Club and Church and the proceeds go straight back to various youth programs in Valley Center. There isn't any reason why something like that would even be on Wikipedia. Vchero (talk) 17:10, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * delete and redirect to Valley Center, California - this fails GNG by a mile. Jytdog (talk) 19:30, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete and Redirect - Not notable, point it to the town's article. BMK (talk) 19:45, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete and Redirect - local event that fails WP:EVENT Gab4gab (talk) 17:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.