Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Varda


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete and redirect to Vala (Middle-earth). Keep arguments based on primary sources are discounted as usual, and the remaining appear to be well refuted. RL0919 (talk) 06:18, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Varda

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Fictional character. No evidence of stand-alone notability. Not a shred of analysis. Pure WP:PLOT and list of appearances in media. Fails WP:PLOT, WP:GNG, WP:NFICTION. BEFORE shows nothing that's not in passing or a plot summary. Deprodded with a rationale WP:ITSIMPORTANT. Who can do better? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:56, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  10:56, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fantasy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:15, 28 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. Character referred to numerous times in Tolkien's work and the literature based on it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:19, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter how many times an author mentioned his creation. We need evidence that others have done so in a substantial way, and this both lacking and not provided by you outside of an assertion that WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep A major creator figure within Tolkien's legendarium, even though "wasn't in the film / video game" is a telling criticism for WP's standards. Appears, and is discussed, in any of the standard commentary works on Tolkien, such as Drout, which is already cited here. Andy Dingley (talk) 03:10, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Your 'arguments' would make more sense if you actually read the sources and cited them properly. Here's a newsflash for you: Drout (Tolkien Encyclopedia) does not have an entry for Varda. This character is only mentioned in passing in some other entries, but was not even deemed important enough to warrant a dedicated entry. I don't see why we should do better, given no better sources have been found so far. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:56, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. Referenced several times in Lord of the Rings.  Beginning with Chapter 3, Three is Company.
 * And the Encyclopedia that does not reference her sounds dubious. Is not one I have ever heard of, as a Tolkien fan.  Mainstream references are clear: see | Tolkien Gateway for how it should be done.--GwydionM (talk) 10:56, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete yes her name is used in the Lord of the Rings. But these are only invocations, not at all descriptions. The fact that the Tolkien encyclopedia lacks an article on her should show we have no reason to. Unless we can find reliable secondary sources with titles such as "of Elbereth Githoniel, Mary and Tolkien's Catholicism" we lack the sourcing we need to adequately create this article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Vala (Middle-earth), where she is already covered. Being mentioned within the text of the fictional work itself is not really sufficient to indicate any sort of real world notability.  And sources regarding her in reliable, secondary sources is scant, and not nearly sufficient to maintain an independent article.  That said, we have a valid Redirect target where there is already an entry on the character.  Rorshacma (talk) 16:50, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete — only a background character.--Jack Upland (talk) 04:49, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Fictional. No evidence of stand-alone notability. Not a shred of analysis. Pure WP:PLOT and list of appearances in media. Fails GNG/NFICTION.Kacper IV (talk) 12:00, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Vala (Middle-earth) per Rorshacma. Devonian Wombat talk 06:10, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.