Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vedat Akman


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. I have, of course, ignored the SPAs who offered no new perspective on the issue Black Kite (talk) 01:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Vedat Akman

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  Stats )

Article PRODded with reason "Non-notable academic. Does not meet WP:PROF (neither of the two journals of which he is editor is notable itself)" (both journals are now also at AfD), dePRODded without any stated reason. In the absence of evidence of notability: Delete. Guillaume2303 (talk) 19:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note See also the related AfDs for EMAJ and CINEJ. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 21:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  --Lambiam 20:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions.  --Lambiam 20:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Question - is the TV/media stuff more "notable" than the academic stuff? This stuff: (Msrasnw (talk) 21:31, 11 April 2012 (UTC))
 * Comment BEA TV seems to be a TV station associated with the university where Akman works. In addition, the "reference" for his involvement with this TV station is a program page that does not even mention him. Searching that web site for "Vedat Akman" does not give any hits. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:39, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Copy of relevant discussion from article talk page:
 * BEA TV is a channel associated with the university where Akman works. Searching their site for "Vedat Akman" does not give a single hit. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:55, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Tick the name of the program "Türkiye 2023" you are ticking the wrong phrase also Maxihaber is not associated with either BEA TV or Beykent University. The Foundation that owns Beykent University also the owner of the BEA TV but they are separate legal identities and totaly separated from each other. So please search before making assumption or talk to someone that knows the region. Thanks. --ozkazanci (talk)
 * It seems to me there is evidence of his hosting the programme - Türkiye 2023 ( and  and more...), but I am not clear what the status (viewing figures and the like) of this programme - TV channel are or indeed of the source: maxihaber. If it is anything like a national channel with viewing figures in the 100s of thousands then this would seem it might be enough for notability but we have the suggestion that it is the only cultural and educational channel (like the PBS in USA) in Turkey.  Can anyone help with providing sources about this? (Msrasnw (talk) 11:16, 16 April 2012 (UTC))
 * Maxihaber again is not associated with either BEA TV or Beykent University. Maxihaber is an independent online newspaper check the owners please... Celik Foundation that owns Beykent University also the owner of the BEA TV but they are separate legal identities and totaly separated from each other. So please again search before making assumption or talk to someone that knows the region. I know it is difficult to chase all the details but truth lies in them. Thanks. --ozkazanci (talk)
 * This and this suggests that it is a campus-wide TV channel, not a nation-wide one. This suggests that there is a link between the university, BEA TV, and maxihaber, making it a non-independent source. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 11:41, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * please check your facts if interested. Your info's are not correct. they are not related. Especially Maxihaber is owned by a totally different owner no association what so ever... read above my explanation please. --ozkazanci (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:01, 17 April 2012 (UTC).


 * Delete. Part of a walled garden of articles probably created by Vedat Akman himself. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 10:42, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete. Vedat Akman is working on BEA TV which Beykent University's tv channel (educational channel). He have 27 book and too many social responsibility projects. --Alenbohcelyan (talk) 13:17, 15 April 2012 (UTC) — Alenbohcelyan (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Don't Delete. He is currently full-time faculty at Beykent University/Istanbul. He is a respected academician and person. --beykenthoca (talk) — beykenthoca (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment. Just a reminder as CAVEATS to guideliness (wikipedia) 1.Note that as this is a guideline and not a rule, exceptions may well exist. Some academics may not meet any of these criteria, but may still be notable for their academic work. It is important to note that it is very difficult to make clear requirements in terms of numbers of publications or their quality: the criteria, in practice, vary greatly by field... 2.An academic who is not notable by these guidelines could still be notable for non-academic reasons... Just as a point he is good for criteria 7. The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity... --beykenthoca (talk) — beykenthoca (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.248.168 (talk) 20:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)  — 85.97.248.168 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment You are right that an academic can be notable without meeting WP:PROF. Akman does not meet WP:PROF, but could meet WP:GNG and that would make him notable. The only claim for that, however, are his TV appearance(s). To accept that as anything substantial, though, I'd like to see better independent sources. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 20:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Hi again, well forexample his books helped visually disabled(recorded)at Library for the Visually Disabled of Turkey(link to recording http://www.turgok.org/kitaplar/1335), Assistive Technology and Education Lab. for Individuals with Visual Diabilities (recording of the book link: http://www.getem.boun.edu.tr/subDetails.asp?ID=9418) He donates earnings from his books to charities such as Theodora Foundation (http://www.theodora.org/TUR/en/100-TUR-en.html) Theodora Foundation is to help ease the suffering of children in hospitals by helping them laugh and have fun. ("Gercek Basari Oykuleri II" Book By him which tells the story of Theodora Foundation as well, the book's copyright fees is being donated to Theodora Foundation-Turkey)... Forexample BEA TV that he appears is an national TV actually the only cultural and educational channel (like the PBS in USA) belonging to Beykent University which he emphasises on social responsibility and education in his programs... like that well if you look deeper you will see a lot of that… He is involved in many social responsibility projects which he does not advertise around... Thank you. --beykenthoca (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 22:55, 15 April 2012 (UTC).


 * Don't Delete. He a respected academician and person here, could meet WP:GNG he is well known and respected here . --sitkisonmezer (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 07:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC).
 * Comment He is highly rated among university students as well a popular rating site for faculty members pls. look at http://www.hocalarim.com ... rated very highly there 2nd place among thousands by votes http://www.hocalarim.com/?act=hoca&id=37597   --sitkisonmezer (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 07:39, 16 April 2012 (UTC).   — sitkisonmezer (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment To the above SPA comments: you're confusing "notability" with "good" or "worthy" or something like that. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:39, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment . http://www.prmia.org/events/view_events.php?eventID=4940 keynote speaker there… look at  the speakers from IMF, Moodys Worldbank.  -- dmboatis (talk)


 * Don't Delete. If someone worthy and good but not notable with all his accomplishment what more? Oscar or Nobel price? Wiki clearly states there are exceptions and exceptional people like that… http://web.ebscohost.com.library.neu.edu.tr/cgi-bin/koha/opac-MARCdetail.pl?bib=82714&author=Akman,%20Vedat,%20%20&title=T%C3%BCrkiye   EBSCO listed reliable source.  -- dmboatis (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 18:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC).  — dmboatis (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Response to above two comments: Publishing is what academics do and so is speaking at conferences. Unless this is somehow noted by independent reliable sources, that does nto contribute to notability. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 18:33, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Response to your response I checked the link you put on reliability it say "the publisher of the work (for example, Random House or Cambridge University Press). All three can affect reliability. " so my question is you dont find Pittsburgh University or Pittsburgh University Press reliable ??? It is a highly ranked research university or do you have a different opinion about reliability because if we consider the link you gave for reliability if Pittsburgh University is not than Who, Which ??? I am really confused about where this is going... I am a first time user so please excuse me. Thank you. --ozkazanci (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:39, 17 April 2012 (UTC).  — ozkazanci (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment PUP is a reliable source and it confirms that the journals exist. Now all that needs to be established is that the journals are also notable and meet either WP:NJournals or WP:GNG. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 11:07, 17 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete: In my view there is insufficient evidence to pass either WP:Prof or more general notability requirements. The status of his TV work, which I suspect might be the best route, has not been shown to be sufficiently notable by independent reliable sources. (I note the Turkish WP article has been blanked for copyright issues) (Msrasnw (talk) 08:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC))
 * PS: The Turkish site has the following explanantion for blanking the article:(Genel 9 - Telif hakkı ihlali yaratan sayfa: https://vedatakman.com/?lng=tr)


 * Don't Delete well let me explain how Turkish vikipedia works (it is called viki rather than wiki) editors there can delete an article without openning discussion and usually you dont even get a response or explanation as to why. You will not see the detailed discussion like here so no loss there for him... well again here at wiki terms and expressions are used personally and making generalisations and assumptions very common unfortunately... As a first time user that is what I noticed immediately reading above... Forexample did you see an explanation as to why with specific reasons ? You will not see because viki in Turkey works quite different way you can delete without any reason editors view is enough... Who are they and What makes them expert ??? So when you say copyright issues you are directing in the wrong direction and what copyright issues can you tell or do you know ? Certainly sounds so wrong the way you emphasize it like he did something wrong ??? Probably who ever prepared the page used a link or used guys personal website for info something like that most commonly... Here at wiki a lot of opinions without proper explanations, points or feedback... Plus no action to improve really just criticism it sounds. Always asking for independent reliable sources which sounds fine but who sets the standard because it seems everyone has different set of standards and agenda there... What reliable or independent to ones not to the other and so on. Also different cultures have quite different perceptions, standards and way of look... So what happen to flexibility, understanding, inter-cultural dialogue and exceptions that wiki expresses in its rules... Himmm realy lets be reasonable please... sometimes it sounds more like an accusation than opinion or generalization rather than assumption... Thank you. (ozkazanci (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC).

Some questions - answers to which might help: can we provide any evidence that Vedat Akman's academic work is notable according to our WP:Prof criteria? Is it well cited or reviewed in multiple independent reliable sources? Is the TV show a "notable" show? Is it a nationally broadcast show with many viewers (What kind of channel is BEA TV - is it like PBS in the US) and do we have any evidence of this from reliable sources? What is maxihaber? (Msrasnw (talk) 10:39, 17 April 2012 (UTC))

Some answers - Pittsburgh University Press is as reliable as Cambridge Press (look at the university ratings) that should clearify notability as well because he is the editor in chief and founder of two journals there... TV show is broadcasted on cable D Smart 245 very popular well known nationwide cable network and program is available on Setallite nationwide TurkSat (it is not a university campus tv channel) you can look at the frequency detail on tvs web.... Maxihaber is an independent online sectorial newspaper very popular especial with IT firms. Well again all sources are in Turkish so you need to speak Turkish to really to verify but if you like I can post you Turkish links there are many... Plus this not his first TV programs he did programs with Channel E Turkey's first Business channel sold later and became CNBC-E, he had program on TV8, Karadeniz TV which are national tv channels... hope this answers question. Thanks. (ozkazanci (talk) 15:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC))
 * Again: PUP being reliable confirms that the journals exist, but does not contribute in the least to notability. And entities don't need to be owned by the same organisation in order to be (in)dependent. If Akman is so notable/beloved/well-known as you say, then it should be much easier to dig up reliable sources showing this than apparently is the case. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 12:33, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * My point is: it is easy to show if you have spoken Turkish because most sources here are in Turkish. English speaking population or publications not much here yet. All general information is available in Turkish. If you are interested I can post the Turkish links selectively... but what you are saying about entities being not needing to be owned by same owner to be in(dependent) very suspicious and shows you dont trust even the basic facts which you can also check yourself if you dont believe others points... Owner in Turkish is "Sahibi" you can look on internet but what I said is the fact so I am very confident you will find the same answer I gave earlier. Trust seems to be a real issue here and being on the side of proving everything for some reason is not easy task I thought we share points and check them ourselves and if we dont understand something we ask but it is like prove this, prove that and than prove more I wish I was a lawyer but I am not and I dont think this person needs one either. I stated my opinion about him which is positive. If you dont agree I respect it but the level and expectations about the discussion should be on reasonable boundries please. Thanks.

(ozkazanci (talk) 15:37, 17 April 2012 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.140.183.2 (talk)
 * Comment I have finally lost my patience and filed a sockpuppet report. Note that the last edit was made by an IP tracing to the very university where Vedat Akman works. I have given many responses and pointed several times to the applicable policies above and am done responding to all these SPAs. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 13:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Again this university uses a single link out (there is no individual links attached) so it is collagues or students who knows and I am his friend from university and I am writing from the University. All you need to do was ask. If you are interested I also work here. I admire his work and him as well as most of his collugues and students do too. Thanks.(ozkazanci (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.140.183.2 (talk) 13:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Hi, I am asst. Prof. Sitki S. From Beykent University. I lost my password so I continued with this nickname previously it was sitkisonmezer. I did not start this page or any other pages. I only became a user to support a friend (I learned recently from a collague of his nomination) whom I sincerely believe deserves recognition. I am writing this message from our Taksim Campus location we have 3 campuses. Unfortunately I find the privacy issue very questionable at wiki and I value my privacy so my wiki days are over. The enviroment here is very hostile and unsupportive. I wish you luck with your investigation. I am completing my discussion here and other related pages as well. Best wishes. Sitki S.(ozkazanci (talk)    —Preceding undated comment added 17:52, 17 April 2012 (UTC).
 * Reply: My view is Turkish sources can be fine - and in any case Google translate can be used to help those of us who can't read Turkish - but the key thing is the sources need to be reliable and indicate notability. I think we don't have these in the article yet. On the TV channel I think, as I argued before, it might have been useful to have some verifiable indication of the notable nature of this channel earlier. On the journal I think it is not yet wp notable as it is too new and is not yet well enough established with it not yet being well cited and the like. If there were to have been proper sourcing to indicate that he was nationally notable via the TV channel it is far more likely there would not have been a problem with this article.  Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 13:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)) PS: Nicely sourced articles on the TV channel and maxihaber might be nice! I have already look at doing this myself but I couldn't find much to do it.

Ps. He is also the founder and honorary president of JCI İstanbul Crossroads International Film Festival which is at its 7th year now. http://www.jciistanbulcrossroads.com/eng-2011.asp this years winning film was fantastic. I found this link on internet but probably someone will cancel that too so before that happens please look at the history of the festival. It is a great event last year winners came from France. http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads_Uluslararas%C4%B1_K%C4%B1sa_Film_Festivali Bye. (ozkazanci (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:46, 17 April 2012 (UTC).
 * Reply:Hi, I am asst. Prof. Sitki S. From Beykent University. I lost my password so I continued with this nickname previously it was sitkisonmezer. I did not start this page or any other. I only became a user to support a friend  (I learned recently from a collague of his nomination) whom I sincerely believe deserves recognition. I am writing this message from our Taksim Campus location we have 3 campuses.  I thought a proper introduction is necessary since there is a privacy issue here at wiki. I am very very uncomfortable as a first time user. The environment is very hostile to first timers. Actually I wish my friend was not nominated at all. Again thank you for the question. The answer to your question I think lies in this link where you can find a lot of press cillipings https://vedatakman.com/basinda.php please further down to pass maxihaber news clips there is a lot there (jpeg) downloadable… Well so much for supporting him. Unfortunately I  find the privacy issue very questionable at wiki and I value privacy so my wiki days are over I am completing my discussion here and other related pages as well. But I thank you for decent questions and a chance to at least answer. Goodbye. Best wishes. Sitki S.
 * I am sorry that you feel this way, but the sockpuppet investigation did show that you had been using two different usernames (and you !voted with both, a big no-no here; somebody else also used two usernames, but !voted only with one; in any case, it seems that the sockpuppet accusation was not completely unfounded). I have been trying as much as possible to point you and your friends towards the applicable policies and guidelines. You might also benefit from a look at the lists of deletion discussions linked above, just below the nomination, to get an idea how debates like this are done and what argument carry weight and which ones don't. As for your privacy concerns, if you had used just 1 alias and had not edited when not signed in (so that your IP was visible to all), there would not have been any problem. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 18:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete as not notable by our standards (PROF and GNG). Guillaume, I thought about closing that SPI but it's too complicated for me--as you know I'm in Liberal Arts so you can't ask too much. Good luck with it though. Drmies (talk) 02:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete looks to me more and more like an vanity piece. BO ; talk 17:22, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.