Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vegetable sandwich


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. I don't think there's any value in relisting this; opinion is split down the middle with reasonable arguments to keep, delete and merge. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Vegetable sandwich

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An article about what constitutes a vegetable sandwich (including cheese, apparently). The references are all to recipe pages. Fails WP:RS, WP:OR, WP:NOTRECIPE. Unsalvageable. Andyjsmith (talk) 23:11, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Surely a sandwich made with cheese is a cheese sandwich. SpinningSpark 01:49, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * yep! Sounds like a monty python sketch Delete Davidstewartharvey (talk) 06:29, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Category:Cheese sandwiches has 39 member articles! Clearly not desperately in need of another one. SpinningSpark 16:01, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeh. How a burger comes under a sandwich is something confusing to me. A burger comes in a roll, sandwich is made witslices of bread! Davidstewartharvey (talk) 18:12, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


 * After some thought on this one overnight, keep. First of all, NOTRECIPE is not a proscription against using recipe books as sources.  In fact, they are the very place one might expect to find reliable information on a food dish.  NOTRECIPE does not even proscribe including a recipe in an article.  What it does proscribe is a howto description in the imperative mood, but a list of ingredients would be fine (but not just that).
 * It's inclusion in Mumbai Roadside Snacks together with the Veg Recipes of India article "Mumbai Vegetable Sandwich" is enough to convince me that this is a definite thing in India and not just random creations by food writers.  I would be similarly convinced that this was a recognised Western dish by its inclusion in Professional Cooking, except that the dish described there is a "vegetable sandwich with goat cheese and sun-dried tomatoes".  Not so sure that makes "vegetable sandwich" a definite dish.  While bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich is undoubtedly still counted as a bacon sandwich and an egg and cress sandwich is still undoubtedly an egg sandwich, this one is pretty borderline. Spinning<b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 11:03, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If "Mumbai Vegetable Sandwich" is a thing then maybe that's what this article should be about. Maybe it's what the article is supposed to be about, except it doesn't say so. What it's actually about is the generic concept of vegetable sandwich which is not a thing in any meaningful sense any more than you would walk into your local sandwich bar and ask for a "meat sandwich". Beef, pork, what? Also, zero reliable sources explaining why "vegetable sandwich" is a thing and what sort of thing it is. I originally tried cutting out the references to cheese (obviously) and then the suggestions about mushrooms etc which clearly are just some editors' recipe ideas, and in the end the article boiled down to "A vegetable sandwich consists of vegetables between two slices of bread". Hence this AfD. Andyjsmith (talk) 12:43, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The fact that Subway might "grill" me over what exactly I wanted in my meat sandwich is not very relevant, or at least not a policy-based rationale. I can imagine an equally Pythonesque conversation about what exactly I wanted in my cheese sandwich (39 to choose from in category:Cheese sandwiches).  The relevant question is have food writers written about vegetable sandwiches.  Well have they? . <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 16:42, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * *sigh* My point was that once you've removed the POV stuff the article is meaningless, because "vegetable sandwich" is such a hopelessly generic topic that you can't say anything about it. There's no history, no nutritional issues, no controversy, no social implications, no national or ethnic connotations and so on - if there were they would be about specific vegetables or specific recipes. A Mumbai vegetable sandwich is characterised by the inclusion of chutney and spice; a Danish vegetable sandwich often uses pickles but never any spices. Lots of people have written about vegetable sandwiches in the sense of specific sandwich recipes but I'm not aware of anyone saying anything meaningful about a universal vegetable sandwich which is what the article is about. That's why I say it's unsalvageable. God, this is a facile conversation. Andyjsmith (talk) 13:32, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. So basically the article comes down to this: A vegetable sandwich is a sandwich with vegetables and possibly a few other ingredients. There's not enough meat to justify an article, nyuk, nyuk. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:53, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure there is a lot of variation, but there is just as much, if not more, for sponge cake and salad for instance. I can see at least two specific subtypes which have a more definite form; the Bombay sandwich already mentioned and the rainbow vegetable sandwich.  I'm willling to work on putting in some sub-types along the lines of the sponge cake article if that would persuade one or two people. <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 10:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Well the sponge cake article starts with an interesting history, explains the recipe(s), discusses different types, mentions religious celebrations... that's what I call a proper article. The Sandwich article is equally full of fascinating facts. But is there anything to say about the generic concept of vegetable sandwiches that's not fully covered in a single phrase of the first sentence of Sandwich? Come to think of it why don't I just redirect the article to Sandwich? Andyjsmith (talk) 13:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Please don't WP:BADGER, the question wasn't addressed to you and you've already told me three times where you stand. <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 14:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Observation, just to muddy the waters: There's no meat sandwich, but there is a fish sandwich, which doesn't say a whole lot more than this one does. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - You can't make a strong WP:TNT argument for an article that only has 4 paragraphs. I think the discussion so far has demonstrated that the topic is notable. If the article is "not proper", take the initiative to fix it. ~Kvng (talk) 14:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of sandwiches. We don't need separate articles on anything you can put between a couple slices of bread, content can be covered perfectly well there. Don't care for your WP:OSE of topics that aren't as generic and non-specific, with more sources beyond recipes and blogs. Reywas92Talk 20:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per Andyjsmith's reasoning, I agree an article called "vegetable sandwich" is unfixable.  Since there are no visible sources with coverage of the concept of "vegetable sandwich", only specific examples, this is unverifiable, synthesis, and OR.  Thanks to Andyjsmith for taking the initiative to fix this problem.  --Lockley (talk) 03:45, 5 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.