Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vexillology Ireland


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. apparent consensus  DGG ( talk ) 05:38, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Vexillology Ireland

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COI creation, primarily sourced. Murry1975 (talk) 10:48, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 17:16, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 17:16, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete, reluctantly. I absolutely love flags and vexillology websites and it seems like a really interesting place, but there is nothing I can find that would pass WP:GNG or WP:RS. The author of this article also created the recently deleted Stanislav Zamyatin, which was featured prominently in this organization's newsletter as its CEO: seems to me like there's a larger link here between the two and there's probably a COI violation going on. Between the lack of outside sources and the COI of the person who created it... it looks like a really interesting group but that isn't enough to let them have an article. Nomader (talk) 21:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes judging by the users profile and the ceo profile they are one in the same. It features as a small and sufficient part in Genealogical Society of Ireland. Murry1975 (talk) 11:08, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry do you really mean sufficient. The talk page of  Genealogical Society of Ireland suggests a merge of this article into that one.  This makes sense to me.Peter Rehse (talk) 11:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Do not Delete, I am not going to pretend that I am an expert in Wikipedia but I will say that I am an expert in flags and as the main representative of them in Ireland I will say that there is a 'lot' of badly written, false and plagiarized writing on flags in general. I am not sure how you are contributing to Wikipedia and the world, but I can say that you are not helping by insisting that this page be deleted. My German friend who is a prominent contributor on German Wikipedia has informed me that English Wikipedia forbids dependent articles, meaning that I have to find someone, who is not member of Vexillology Ireland to write the article, using sources outside of VI and its parent group Genealogical Society of Ireland. Another issue is that since Vexillology Ireland is part of the Genealogical Society of Ireland, it is the latter that gets all the publicity, even though in actuality they are involved in different things. I guess a merger is better then deletion but I strongly think that much would be lost in Ireland and in the field of vexillology (flag studies) if this page is merged or deleted. I would strongly urge you to reconsider and assist in the preservation of this page rather than the 'destruction' of it. Thank you and hopefull you can be considerate and understanding of the situation. Hohostan (talk) 18:21, 21 August 2015 (GMT)
 * Basically, there must be reliable sources that talk about Vexillology Ireland. Believe me, I love flags as much as you do, but in order to have this article exist here on Wikipedia, there has to be significant outside coverage that talks about the organization from verifiable and reliable sources. Do you have anything that I might have missed when I looked? Nomader (talk) 19:43, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * A first step is done by adding the North American Vexillological Association as reference for VI as member of FIAV, which is the main authority for vexillology. --J. Patrick Fischer (talk) 20:56, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I see your point, and the FIAV is definitely a large organization. But I don't think it's enough to satisfy the requirements for an article to exist here. Just because it's a member organization doesn't mean that every member organization necessarily has to have its own page. But the reference that was added to the article is just a list of all member organizations, and their website doesn't have any other information on VI like a profile on it either. Can you think of anything else? I'm looking but I still haven't found anything that would lead me to strike my delete, especially not the FIAV reference. Nomader (talk) 22:18, 23 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep, it seems significant enough. Snowsuit Wearer (talk&#124;contribs) 20:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/XfD. Snowsuit Wearer (talk&#124;contribs) 20:57, 23 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Citations, Vexillology Ireland produces a biannual newsletter known as 'VIBE', copies of which are found at the National Library of Ireland. The society is currently working on setting up a joint flag registry with the Flag Institute and work has gone underway. More citations will be provided after the 26th International Congress of Vexillology in Sydney. http://www.icv26.com.au/ Hohostan (talk) 10:23, 25 August 2015 (GMT)


 * I don't think that a library holding a newsletter makes something necessarily notable. My dad wrote a really great running book once, but it doesn't have a Wikipedia page even though it's in the Library of Congress. As I've said above, there needs to be significant coverage and I'm just not seeing it. Nomader (talk) 16:53, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, Hohostan: according to your Userpage, you're the head of this organization, correct? Could you make sure to declare your conflict of interest at the talk page of the article and somewhere here in this discussion? Nomader (talk) 16:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 03:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:31, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. It exists, but that does not mean it belongs to an encyclopedia. Is there a single independent source that calls it notable, important or such? If so, please ping me and I'll review this. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:56, 4 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Do not delete: The Wikipedia article on Vexillology Ireland should continue to exist.  Flags Australia recently hosted the 26th International Congress of Vexillology, which included a presentation by Vexillology Ireland of its intent to bid for the hosting of ICV29 in 2021.  As an executive of a well recognised flag association that has existed for over 30 years and hosted two ICVs, and the webmaster for Flags Australia I find it hard to see how anyone other than the association itself provide reliable information on a flag group, unless one goes to the extreme of ghost writing a contribution by an erstwhile third party to avoid the mindless application of a rule that is inappropriate in the circumstances.  The existence of Vexillology Ireland is verified by its membership of FIAV (which has stringent membership requirements), and the CEO Mr Stan Zamyatin attended ICV26 in Sydney.  He has just published a new book on the design of flags, copies of which were distributed in Sydney.  If the Wikipedia article states something that is wrong or exceedingly biased, then Wikipedia has a record of such excesses being corrected.  There is no need to censor the existence of the article itself.  - by Ralph Kelly  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.172.168.246 (talk) 01:09, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment The question is not whether Vexillology is a significant subject, but whether Vexillology Ireland is a notable organisation. The fact that the subject had no national society from 1992 to 2013, between the dissolution of a 8-year old society and its revival in 2013, suggests to me that it is NN.  My guess is that there is one enthusiast who is producing an on-line newsletter and a dozen or two members.  If so, it is certainly NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:59, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Nothing off of a search of Vexillology Ireland finds good independent-third party sources. Article fails both points of WP:NONPROFIT. MrWooHoo (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirect / Merge over to Genealogical Society of Ireland since the parent organization is far more notable than this branch of it CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 21:02, 12 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.