Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victor Martin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 02:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Victor Martin

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Deprodded. I am not sure what the notability is. He was: 1) a pilot 2) received a Vietnamese service medal 3)Got a phd in physics 4)Knew an astronaut 5) Was a Lt Col. Am I missing something? Porturology (talk) 02:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Barely even an assertion of notability. The most notable thing about him seems to be that he won a national science fair in high school.  Graymornings (talk) 02:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nice resume, not notable. Drmies (talk) 04:36, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - no assertion of notability given per WP:N. — Ed 17  (Talk /  Contribs)  17:57, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - He also won 3 Air Medals (higher honors than the Gallantry Cross). Anyway, not sure what isn't notable about a Vietnam War Veteran who became one of the very few "flying PhDs". It's certainly well within scope of the Military Wiki project, particularly since he was the last active duty squadron commander of the 15th TRS. Maybe in order to get a bio page he would have been better off to have been an | American Idol contestant rather than a LtCol, Doctor and veteran? Kind of sad that is is even a discussion.70.43.179.202 (talk) 19:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC) — 70.43.179.202 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * If articles have proper references and in-line citations, esp. when documentation isn't easily found by just anyone, it might well be that IF this person is indeed notable the article might not have come up at AfD. Don't blame WP for excessive coverage of nobodies who make it on American Idol--blame the general population for reading and demanding articles about them, articles which easily make for "References" sections... Drmies (talk) 20:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If he was the only pilot to get a phd (or the only one of 5) I think he would be notable but "one of the few" is a weasle phrase. I would think that as pilots are inherently well educated and intelligent, "more than a few" eventually studied for a phd. My understanding is that the Vietnam gallantry cross was the service medal issued by the SVN government to all participants - certainly there is one currently for sale on Australian e-bay, with no takers, at $A50. The Wikipedia article on the Air medal says that it was the service medal for any combatant who flew against the VC and NV. Prior to Vietnam, bars were issued as oakleaves but the number of bars became so great in Vietnam that this was replaced by a number on the back.I understand his rank is the equivalent of wing commander - are all wing commanders or squadron commanders of the "cotton pickers" inherently noteable? As for the elist argument about American Idol, I think it is a safe bet that far more people have had interaction/know American Idol contestants than will ever have heard of Victor Martin - that is what makes them more noteable.Porturology (talk) 23:04, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "The Gallantry Cross is awarded to any military personnel who have accomplished deeds of valor or displayed heroic conduct while fighting an enemy force." It's important to note the distinction between the individual and unit citations. FWIW, I can buy a silver eagle on EBay. That doesn't make me a general. It's the meaning behind any award, not the price.


 * I don't know what a "weasle phrase" is. If it's what I think, please let's not make this personal.


 * Pilots indeed are generally intelligent and well-educated. However, very few combat pilots have PhDs. A quick web search will show you that, and naturally, it makes sense. Most people who spend that much time studying a field go on to do research and development in it, or, they teach.


 * During Vietnam, the Air Medal was awarded to a person who performed a meritorious achievement during aerial flight. Lt. Col Martin was a reconnaissance pilot in an unarmed aircraft (RF4-C).


 * If the idea is to provide information about persons who served in the Military with distinction, then yes, all Squadron Commanders of the 15th are notable. If Military history is important to you, then anyone who served with distinction should be granted equal opportunity to be represented for research purposes. Wikipedia is a repository for relevant information. If someone was researching flying PhDs, Squadron Commanders of the 15th, or science fair winners from Alabama, it becomes very relevant. The case has been made for "notability". He and his achievements are certainly notable. He's just not famous. I don't think that merits deletion.

UsualDosage (talk) 23:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC) — UsualDosage (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Comment. Please don't confuse notability with merit, and also remember that Wikipedia is a world-wide encyclopedia. Would you be arguing for the inclusion of any pilot of similar distinction who fought for either side in the Iran-Iraq war? Phil Bridger (talk) 21:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Nice resume, but being a veteran or a doctor or a Lt Colonel does not make you notable. Edward321 (talk) 02:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Weasel word


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.