Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victoria Asher


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Cobra Starship. consensus is clear among established editors Star   Mississippi  02:53, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Victoria Asher

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

No WP:SIGCOV that I could find in a WP:BEFORE search. No reviews by notable critics, no profiles in RS. Suggest a redirect to Cobra Starship. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:18, 9 April 2022 (UTC) Relisting comment: The current arguments for "keep" are weak and not policy-based. They do not demonstrate encyclopedic notability. However, several sources have been brought forth, and it seems this may be a borderline case. Therefore I am relisting this should any additional sources be brought forth which could show GNG nor NBIO is met. The length of time the article has been on Wikipedia, whether or not it is "factual", and being related or employed by famous people, all of these are not valid reasons for keeping an article. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 02:31, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:18, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:18, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * What about this one? It seems on-point.  It covers age, band, education, and the relation to Jane Asher.  And.
 * There's also this one, which is actually different to the other, even though it's the same headline. Obviously sourced to an interview in part, but it covers the same sort of ground in between the interview bits.  And  and names its editors and this author.
 * They don't have the look of recycled press releases, seem reliable, have identifiable authors, are in depth &mdash; and there are at least two of them. I'd say, at this point, that this is not the sort of in-a-university-press-book sourcing that you and I are used to from some of the biography articles that we've tackled recently.  But in fact this person is in a university press book, it turns out.   documents the Cobra Starship membership and comments on it.  Alone, yes, that would be a mention in the other article.  But we have two biography sources that go into background, too.  Judith May Fathallah of Solent University confirms that the celebrity news biographies aren't just hot air.
 * Then there are old issues of Billboard magazine, and the Asher family and Cobra Starship/Vicky-T mention in Chris O'Dell's (yes, that one) 2009 autobiography (page 384). So two major sources and some little ones confirming bits and pieces.  I mention merely in passing that the subject is on a book on the Beatles,, documenting the Vicky-T pseudonym.  But that's because the author is the subject's father.  It isn't in-depth, either.  It would at least have sourced that sentence in the prior article, though.  Peter Asher is probably not lying about the name of xyr daughter, even if we'd vastly prefer other sources for anything else, and probably has enough subject expertise to know whether someone has a music career.  &#9786;
 * Oddest for last: a CUP textbook for learning English, . Not in-depth, and like  if it were the only thing.  And not on-point with the actual expert subject matter, which is why I wouldn't bother with it at all despite its provenance.  But a bizarre second university press book that came up when looking.
 * Uncle G (talk) 03:50, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The HITC source didn't look reliable to me, and although thethings does have a corrections and gave checking policy, their about us page says Celebrity Coverage: If you’re talking about it, we’re talking about it. We want to know how much celebrities are making, where they’re living, who they’re dating, and most importantly, what they’re up to right. Now. When we know, you know. The Hollywood world is full of twists and turns. This is why our content dives deep into the subject and uncovers the complicated and most important questions you might have about the latest celebrity drama. Get the answers you need, all in one place. Despite having those editorial policies published, I don't think a site focused on celebrity drama really works to establish notability. As for the books, I am consistently astounded by your ability to find book sources. Would you say the book sources are enough significant coverage to establish notability? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:12, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:45, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Cobra Starship - This one is admittedly a close call. Kudos to Uncle G above for tracking down obscure sources, but I don't see them getting Victoria past the WP:NOTINHERITED hurdle. She got some notice as the assistant during the "FreeBritney" saga but those stories just show her connection to a controversy surrounding someone else. The books add the fact that she has a notable father. But she does not achieve notability by inheriting it from Britney or her father or Cobra Starship. All of her useful sources are about her activities with Cobra Starship and her solo music has gained no reliable notice. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 14:03, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why is this page being considered for deletion and why has more than half of it been deleted? I understand the lame gossip article about her and Patrick Stump but the rest is all fact. She IS the daughter of Peter Asher and Wendy Asher. She also IS the assistant of Britney Spears as confirmed by articles as well as Britney's instagram page herself. Makes no sense that this page would be deleted at all. It has been up for many years and is all backed by fact. Rumraisinv (talk) 02:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC) — Rumraisinv (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * There is literally no reason to delete this page. Someone has been removing true information from it in an effort to invalidate the page. Please return it to its rightful status. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:C:2C11:0:0:0:2 (talk) 04:04, 13 April 2022 (UTC)  — 2600:387:C:2C11:0:0:0:2 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I agree. Victoria Asher has many achievements through her musician and film year. On her website https://vickyt.com/about the About page and the Print page, she has many valid evidences that she worked with Cobra Starship https://www.altpress.com/features/women-in-rock-2000s-music/. She is a daughter of Pete Asher https://www.celebnetworthpost.com/peter-asher. She is also Britney Spears 's assistant https://www.thethings.com/who-is-britney-spears-assistant-vicky-t-victoria-asher-details/. She did many performances worldwide with Cobra Starship: https://vickyt.com/video-press-performance . It would be injustice to delete her page. Ubering cacti (talk) 07:20, 13 April 2022 (UTC) — Ubering cacti (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * That's a primary source from the subject, a single paragraph, an unreliable source, an unreliable source, and a primary source from the subject. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:00, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @ScottishFinnishRadish Thanks for pointing that out. I hope more people are looking into this. Victoria has been in the music and film industry for a long time. She is also a great person to know on Instagram. It would be a shame to delete her page. I truly hope for more people are looking in for her reliable sources. Ubering cacti (talk) 23:18, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * There is literally no reason to delete this page. Someone has been removing true information from it in an effort to invalidate the page. Please return it to its rightful status. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:C:2C11:0:0:0:2 (talk) 04:04, 13 April 2022 (UTC)  — 2600:387:C:2C11:0:0:0:2 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I agree. Victoria Asher has many achievements through her musician and film year. On her website https://vickyt.com/about the About page and the Print page, she has many valid evidences that she worked with Cobra Starship https://www.altpress.com/features/women-in-rock-2000s-music/. She is a daughter of Pete Asher https://www.celebnetworthpost.com/peter-asher. She is also Britney Spears 's assistant https://www.thethings.com/who-is-britney-spears-assistant-vicky-t-victoria-asher-details/. She did many performances worldwide with Cobra Starship: https://vickyt.com/video-press-performance . It would be injustice to delete her page. Ubering cacti (talk) 07:20, 13 April 2022 (UTC) — Ubering cacti (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * That's a primary source from the subject, a single paragraph, an unreliable source, an unreliable source, and a primary source from the subject. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:00, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @ScottishFinnishRadish Thanks for pointing that out. I hope more people are looking into this. Victoria has been in the music and film industry for a long time. She is also a great person to know on Instagram. It would be a shame to delete her page. I truly hope for more people are looking in for her reliable sources. Ubering cacti (talk) 23:18, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment This all seems very tabloid, and it's not my usual area. But there is tons of news about her job as Britney Spears assistant
 * https://daily9news.com/omg-britney-spears-was-seen-topless-in-the-pool-photo-without-clothes-with-assistant-goes-viral/
 * If you google news search "Spears" AND "Vicky-T" you get lots of stuff. It does suggest notability, but I don't know wikipeia's appraoch to tabloid/pop culture notability well, so I'll refrain from !voting. CT55555 (talk) 15:32, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Based on the fact that the About Us link doesn't work, and the privacy policy is so poorly copy/pasted that it still has the Suggested text: in place, I'd say it's probably not a reliable source, even moreso for a BLP. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:55, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment A slew of IPs have posted "Don't Delete" on the Talk page of this discussion, mostly with no reasons given, or else that she is being targeted because she is an assistant to Britney Spears, which is at present not part of the article being considered for deletion. David notMD (talk) 11:55, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I've also removed a bunch of the same that were posted above the AfD templates. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:08, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * So far, 13 accounts have posted incorrectly to the talk page, and 11 have done nothing else in Wikipedia. For the remaining 2, this is the second or third thing they're ever done. Also note the repeated claims. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 14:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I am moving comments that ScottishFinnishRadish removed as they are constructive and done in good faith, just in the wrong place and in ignorance of policy: Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:00, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Vicky is a great human being besides of course being a great musician as well. I don’t even know why her wiki is considered for deletion.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:AB40:A6:C0FE:1948:7C81:7510 (talk) 06:40, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Victoria Asher is 34 and awesome.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.27.221.216 (talk) 03:37, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * She is born 1988 on Jan. 20, 1988. That would make her 34. 108.11.24.237 (talk) 03:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Let’s not delete this page, that would be neat — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:600:4B00:0:0:0:8F5B (talk) 05:00, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No need to delete! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.219.97 (talk) 05:36, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Please don't delete — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.21.92.175 (talk) 05:39, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * VickyT is an awesome artist. Her recent activity as Britney's assistant put her in the spotlight. Unfortunately, she gained attention from bad people or crazy Britney's fans too. Last modifications of her page seems to be the work of malevelent person. Deleting her page would be unfair and a mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB14:83BE:9900:4D1A:1A96:6322:736B (talk) 06:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It would make no sense to delete this artists page. Everything written is true. She is an incredible musician and definitely made her mark in the music world. To delete that would make no sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.111.53 (talk) 07:28, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Victoria Asher is a wonderful person and artist who inspires people like myself with her music and background. I believe the people or person who trying to get Victoria's wikipedia page deleted is doing so out of spite since she has been thrown into the spotlight very recently by her new career move as Britney Spears assistant. This is not a valid reason to delete a wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7E:3E34:700:909D:F25A:5786:CAB4 (talk) 07:38, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * She has plenty of previous entertainment history to have a wiki page. Deletion not needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6080:4701:E4CB:64D7:3242:C91D:5335 (talk) 11:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: So now that those are all here (above), that is a lot of enthusiasm but little idea of how to make a case for notability. Note that IPs now blocked. David notMD (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Citations & Notability have been added. See Victoria Asher's Reference List. This nomination for deletion is truly a sign of sabotage - and a big shame since women have been systemically neglected by history. Asher is well known musician in a male dominated genre. I highly suggest removing the AfD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpress1 (talk • contribs)
 * You added:
 * which is not significant coverage
 * which is not significant coverage, merely a single quote among many
 * which simply mentions her name once
 * which isn't an RS, and isn't significant coverage anyway
 * is an interview with her parents, not independent, doesn't establish notability
 * an interview with a non-notable publication, doesn't establish notability
 * is coverage about the band, not coverage of her, mentions her name once
 * another interview with a non-notable publication, doesn't establish notability
 * Lastly, please leave out the personal attacks about sabotage. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:46, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: One last attempt to get some policy based comments Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SpinningSpark 09:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Had the university press books not been a surprise, I'd have gone into the magazine sources more. I wasn't expecting this to still be open after my having been distracted by so many things.  But since it is, here goes:  Yes, the magazines want to publish ridiculous fluff about who is friends with whom this week, but the almost accidental byproduct of that is valid non-trivial biographical content of the subject, from sources whose authors and editors I can name, with a fact checking policy.  This isn't the sort of high grade stuff that some biographies have, but it is what we are looking for: in-depth material by identifiable people with known good reputations for fact checking and accuracy.  I can identify Amelia Harvey and Elissa Bain and the magazine editors.  And they tell me things like when the article subject dropped out of university for a music career. So no, these don't get to be unreliable just because they headline the useless celebrity fluff.  They address the topic on point and in depth enough that I know things like where the subject studied film.  They aren't recycled press releases.  And they aren't first person interviews.  I do not fault them for satisfying our criteria just because they are in the bands, businesses, and (living person) biographies topic area.  It isn't right to do that.  They count. Indeed, this is tame sourcing by the standards of some of the fawning, hagiographic, exaggerated, and sometimes obviously downright fabricated biographical press content that one has to filter out for biographies of long-dead people.  &#9786;Uncle G (talk) 11:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect or Delete Would prefer delete as she fails WP:SIGCOV. There is no WP:SECONDARY coverage, but a redirect would acceptable.    scope_creep Talk  10:56, 2 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.