Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vijay Prakash Singh


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus has been converging towards agreeing that the subject meets WP:ANYBIO Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  11:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Vijay Prakash Singh

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:PROF -- I am unable to find any highly cited work that shows him an influence on his field. The only claim to notability is the Padma Shri, but this is a 4th level award, and if his career is representative, is routine for people in administrative positions.

There are many other individuals in medicine in the same situation-- see. I am nominating two other individual,s considering this and the adjacent AfDs as test cases.  DGG ( talk ) 04:02, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  DGG ( talk ) 04:02, 26 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:ANYBIO. Padma Shri is a fourth level civilian award in India, a country of over 1.35 billion people, and the total number of awardees is only 2840 people in its history of 65 years. The subject of the article is also famous as an institution builder which is mentioned in the article. The generally agreed norm is that if a subject satisfies one of the several criteria of notability, we keep the article in. Here, the subject satisfies WP:ANYBIO and applying another criterion is not called for. If we move along these lines, Wikipedia will become leaner by the day. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was a lawyer but if we apply WP:PROF on him, the article Mahatma Gandhi will not be there. Further, WP:PROF advises This guideline is independent from the other subject-specific notability guidelines, such as WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC, WP:AUTH etc. and is explicitly listed as an alternative to the general notability guideline. It is possible for an academic not to be notable under the provisions of this guideline but to be notable in some other way under the general notability guideline or one of the other subject-specific notability guidelines. --jojo@nthony (talk) 05:45, 26 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 08:05, 26 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep subject is notable. Padma Shri award is prestigious and given to notable people only.Krishna&#39;s flute (talk) 15:31, 26 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I do not see any evidence for "institution builder" Contributing to the establishment of a single academic department is not institution building, as contrasted to being the principal person who founds a university .  The question here is if Padma Shri is enough, and the fact that it is given for such little accomplishments as given here is eveidence to the contrary.  The fact that it is awarded with the ref saying its for hispublications, when his publicationsare trivial shows the quality of the award cannot be assumed.  DGG ( talk ) 05:34, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * He was instrumental in creating the department of gastroenterology at Patna Medical College and at Indira Gandhi Institute of Medical Sciences. Padma Shri was not awarded to him for his scientific publications but for his contributions, in general, in the field of Medicine in India. The argument, as you put it, is straightforward - whether Padma Shri is a notable award. The fourth highest civilian award of a country of 1.35 billion people, I guess, is notable. A point to note here is that the the recipients of the higher three awards, Padma Bhushan, Padma Vibhushan and Bharat Ratna, together count only 1609 since 1954.--jojo@nthony (talk) 06:05, 27 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Draftify: Delete : (see end of paragraph): Article as currently stands and I'm not sure it can go much farther. I'm leaning delete because the article does not seem to evidence the notability of the subject to me at his point.  I'm not at all brilliant on guidelines but I've tried.  At WP:ANYBIO.  The header above it says (my emphasis) "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards. Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included; conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included.".  I'm try to compare with UK MBE/OBE/CBE/Knighthoods ... and in general my gut feeling an MBE would not get an article unless meeting in on other criteria (probably true for OBE and CBE also) whereas a Knighthood might.  And I'm inclined to think also this likely ought to be the case for the fourth level Civilian award in India; albeit the population/award ratio is likely lower.  In summary the article needs to strongly evidence why it is there and give context and possibly meet criteria on another basis.  The article as to demonstrate this is in a meaningful way ... not just a like of date events and awards.  If the person has written articles we need a Bibliography.  Sourced must be protected again WP:LINKROT so they can be re-checked.  There are glimspses the subject might be notable, but the article fails to impress that to me.  And I am inclined to think the situation is similar for many on List of Padma Shri award recipients (2000–2009), perhaps my random selection of Jagan Nath Kaul (excluding the awards list and the nightmarish lack of inline citations) at least at first glance if not at second) is more the minimum sort of article we ought to be trying to achieve in my view.  Despite the way I may discuss these articles let it not detract from the honour of these people and I hope I have not inadvertently caused offence.  Personal nobility does not correlate with Wikipedia notability. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 14:27, 27 November 2019 (UTC).
 * I've switched to Draftify as there a possibilities an article may be possible but I dont believe the current sources as presented warrant it and perhaps equally I'm not seeing enough content in the article itself. Take away the awards and there's nothing left in the article.  I'm concerned about stubs being presented leaving it for others to fix.  thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the change Djm-leighpark. An article can remain a stub or start class. Being a stub is not a reason to delete. It will eventually expand. Draftify should be selected if there are volunteers willing to work on it or else it will get deleted in 6 months any way. Our focus here on AfD should be to gauge to notability and comment on the basis of it. If it is notable, there is no reason why it cannot remain as a stub or start until it can be expanded. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  21:52, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep: This article meets the WP:GNG atleast he is the awardee of a country's 4th highest award. It cannot be neglected.Rocky 734 (talk) 15:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment:@: If these are test cases not individuals do they need to reported to e.g. WikiProject India? Djm-leighpark (talk) 15:24, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: @/-jojo@nthony/Anybody: Per WP:THREE please specifically present 3 best WP:RS sources for scrutiny. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 15:24, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete The fourth level Padma award, especially for Indians, does not mean a thing. It can be given for all sorts of political connections.  Other than an incidental mention in an article about someone else, which is hardly an example of a reliable source, let alone a scholarly source that would be par for the course for an academic, there is nothing by way of the usual criteria by which WP accords notability.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  22:44, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Let us leave out politics, political connections can earn one laurels in many countries, let alone India. The opening statement also appears to be far-fetched. Being an Indian I can safely argue that Padma awards are considered in high esteem in India.--jojo@nthony (talk) 14:19, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * What my reasoning means is that other than a mention of the Padma award, which is neither here nor there, there are no Wikipedia reliable sources supporting his notability. Are you proposing that we obtain a list of all the fourth-level Padma awardees since 1954 and create Wikpedia articles on each of them?  That would be the unmistakable, the unerring,  inference of your safe argument.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  12:11, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, Padma Shri being a notable award, my conviction is that all the 2840 recipients of the award are notable per WP:ANYBIO. --jojo@nthony (talk) 12:18, 30 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. Sources not adequate. Citation record seems non-existent. No pass of WP:Prof. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:32, 29 November 2019 (UTC).
 * If sources are inadequate, we must develop the article. This is one of the reasons why Wikipedia allows stubs.--jojo@nthony (talk) 14:23, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and find new sources then. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:16, 29 November 2019 (UTC).
 * It will come eventually, if the article does not get deleted before that. --jojo@nthony (talk) 05:05, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Please see my comment below on the sourcing. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  08:12, 3 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:ANYBIO. WP:India contributor here, so believe I can present more insight on the awards and subject notability. The Padma Shree is given to persons with large social contributions, which generally makes them notable for an article. There may be exceptions but this subject is not one. He is a figure of authority in the Indian state of Bihar for Gastroenterology he being the Head of Department of Gastroenterology at PMCH, Bihar's biggest publicly owned college and hospital. He is also a member of the executive council of the Medical Council of India, which is a very important post held by top level doctors.  I understand that the sourcing is hard to find, which is mainly attributed to WP:BIAS. The regional language is Hindi and print and TV media are more prominent in this part of the world in comparison to internet. The Times of India published an interview of the subject on the topic of Hepatitis and here-- D Big X ray ᗙ  09:11, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: President Medical Council of India would be a reason for an article but not just member.  DGG' ( talk ) 18:27, 3 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: As in all these test cases can I ask for experienced closers/relisters only please and comments to be left in either case. thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 06:40, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment about other articles When I checked our category of those who had received the awards, at least 1/3 were unambiguously notable. So either we are getting all the notable ones, or the entire list does have to be checked to see if there are notable ones we have not covered. I would strongly support (and am willing to work on revising) articles on every one of them who do meet the usual standards. I have always advocated intensive work on all areas that are under-covered here to find the notable people.  DGG ( talk ) 18:49, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment about sourcing I don't think the unavailability of sources for the modern period is actually a problem--the articles do document what the people have done. Where it would be a real problem is for the British period.  DGG ( talk ) 18:49, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
 * DGG, my parents are from this region of India. India is a third world country and Bihar can be considered as the most economically backward region of India. This should help you have some idea of the Internet Bias in the region. It is not that the subject isn't getting covered, the coverage primarily lies in the offline media. And even then we have some coverage that I listed above. My keep vote is based mainly on the notability due to his work that got him the Padma shree in the first place and then the assumption that the conferment of the award must have led to more coverage that would again be found in the offline media. Using same standard to gauge the SIGCOV sources for a doctor in the US vs the subject from this backward region will be insane. You've got to trust the contributors from the region in such cases that are hard to judge. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  19:19, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I would specifically like to know whether any editors think that moving this article to draft would enable the introduction of additional sources or bases for notability. BD2412 T 20:21, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. Despite all the protestations and special pleading we still don't have enough in-depth independent reliable sources about the subject to pass WP:GNG or other notability criteria. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:36, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BD2412  T 20:22, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * You can move the article to draft yourself by copying its source into your sandbox. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:13, 4 December 2019 (UTC).
 * @, Unbelievable: you are are on the verge of inciting people to perform copies without attribution, and I'd encourage people become aware of Copying within Wikipedia before going down that route. I'll hold my breath and remain WP:CIVIL.Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:53, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant WP:Wikilawyering. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:15, 4 December 2019 (UTC).
 * , I am asking in the context of potentially closing this discussion administratively. BD2412  T 22:42, 4 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: I've been examining sources for 10 minutes, the existing sources haven't been well utilitised. Between the line our subject may have done some public Hepatitus campaigns and ther is talk of his published perr review'ed research.  I haven't specificly found that on a search so far and  there's other with the same name to cloud the searching.  One of my concerns is copyvio's and reverse copyvio's and the interjection by Xxanthippe above means I'd likely ask for a refund if the community decides to delete this.  Should the community determine a Padma Shri is insufficient in itself for article retention in mainspace I would agree it is in itself sufficient for any minimally reasonable request to restore to draft ... (avoids copyvio, reverse copyvio, attribution and WP:CFORK issues. there is a lot of digitally scanned content coming online at the moment so new sources are continuing to arise.  OK if it get forgot after 6 months .... then so be it.Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:53, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment In continuation of my Keep vote above, just as I had guessed about SIGCOV sources being available in Hindi, here is one from Outlook (Indian magazine) Where the subject's biography, personal life, education, career, publication etc is covered in great detail in Hindi article, which should be sufficient to satisfy the WP:SIGCOV. This also proves that more such sources can be dug up from offline sources. Apart from Padma Shree the subject has also received "Icons of Bihar" award by Outlook in 2018. being an authority figure he is the goto man for major Indian newspapers for the Gastro related topics.  He is also one of the 6 member of the executive council of the Medical Council of India, which is a very important post held by top level doctors in India. To answer User:BD2412, yes, it will be helpful, but so far what has been dug out, IMHO is enough for a keep. Fyi ping Djm-leighpark for a review. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  22:35, 4 December 2019 (UTC)


 * @: Per WP:THREE you need to be focusing on the very sources and not presenting dictionary entries, youtube, passing mentions ... etc. In that context very loosely speaking (1) above looks to have an impressive shape but its in Hindi and unfortunately I do not know the language. 2. appears Outlook Hindi also wont help.(1 per publication).  3 is the best of the rest with 5,6,7 looking unacceptable for notability purposes and 4 looking very passing.  Obviously the awarding of the Padma Shri is helpful in itself.  I'm also a little intrigued by .  There's no point running about simply trying and badgering me to get me to swing my !vote from draftify to weak keep though ... what we need an explanation of the content of Ref: 1 above from a neutral. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 23:40, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Djm-leighpark, Indeed #1 is an impressive source with detailed coverage. I am a native Hindi speaker, I will be glad to help you if you have any questions on translation. regards. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  08:48, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have left my best translation attempt on the article talk page to understand what this is about. It appears the article is a sort of biography relating to have being a founder director on the BiG hospital (whether he is main honcho or one of X founder directors I am not to be knowing.... see also, note I've use the wayback archive at that page may be volatile any he may not be id=15 forever.Djm-leighpark (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing this. I am afraid the the translation, which reads like a PR release, does not add to notability. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:33, 5 December 2019 (UTC).
 * Its really quite difficult to judge as the automated translation comes out quite WP:PEACOCKy whereas someone versed in both Hindi and English could likely to a better job. It does give some clues to the content of the piece but is not so good in putting it in context  On a side note as far as I can (possibly incorrrectly) gather the "BIG" hospital is a private hospital (no WP article) and perhaps not so big as the Patna Medical College and Hospital (where he also works/worked) which is might have a claim at 5400+ beds to be the biggest in the world.  This is not properly source by me so I may have made mistakes.09:13, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Djm-leighpark The subject still works in both these hospitals and he seems to be having some kind of ownership on BIG hospital. I am versed in both Hindi and English, FYI the biographies published in the Indian media, are almost always written with an appreciative tone. But it is not hard, to differentiate between facts and fluff, in an article. The fact that his bio has been covered in such detail in a pan India magazine is to be noted here. And this is something that is available online, I am sure there are more offline. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  10:01, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per any bio. Padma Shri is major award and it’s alone sufficient to pass the GNG. I’m agreeing with DBig’s reasoning. — Harshil want to talk? 12:00, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as meeting WP:ANYBIO, and per my arguments at Articles for deletion/Anil Kumar Bhalla that equating the Padma Shri with the OBE is false. The OBE is a fourth level award within the Order of the British Empire, but there are other awards which can be given to civilians in the UK which are higher than any class of the Order of the British Empire. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.