Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vincent Cross


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Had a couple of relists but the source analysis has not been reguted. We can revisit if better sources that pass gng can be found. Spartaz Humbug! 06:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Vincent Cross

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO. No effective sources. Fails WP:SIGCOV.  scope_creep Talk  19:17, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Not sure why this was flagged for potential deletion. Clearly meets several "notability" criteria listed in WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV. All sources properly vetted and reliable. User:NEMusic (talk) 18:35, 8 September 2020 (EST)
 * Delete - The previous commenter is playing loose with the guidelines. This article is dependent on several sources that are not reliable because they are reprints of press releases or basic gig announcements. There are some reliable sources cited but the coverage of Mr. Cross within is not significant because he is only mentioned in passing in articles that are about other people or events, or in the case of AllMusic and a few others, he has a basic list entry but no details. He has gotten some reviews in local publications, but I can find nothing else beyond the typical promotional and streaming sites. He may be good at what he does but he simply does not have enough reliable and significant coverage to qualify for notability in Wikipedia. ––  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 16:42, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Edit - Please elaborate on which sources in this article you consider "reliable" and "not reliable." The top cited sources in this page includes an interview with a long-running folk podcast, a feature in an established weekly newspaper, and an interview in a prominent daily newspaper (all written by journalists). None of these references are "reprints of press releases" and to make such a statement is reckless without proof. The sources you're referring as "basic gig announcements" are actually show previews written by journalists, a common piece of press received by any legitimate touring artist. All other sources are commonly used and official music industry sources. User:NEMusic (talk) 16:35, 11 September 2020 (EST)
 * Hi I'll go through the references one-by-one today and examine them.     scope_creep Talk  09:29, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment Looking at each reference in turn.
 * An interview. This is a dependent source. What is needed is independent, in-depth secondary sources that are reliable. Essentially, people talking to people who doesn't know the subject.
 * An announcement. Non-RS. This is not reliable source. Announcements cant be used to establish notability, per WP:NOT.
 * A shop. Non-RS.
 * Very short paragraph. Probably a "passing mention"
 * Track listing. Cant be used to establish notability
 * A "passing mention"
 * Video sample. Cant be used to establish notability
 * A "passing mention
 * Music chart listing. Cant be used to establish notability


 * So you have the first nine references. You have one small paragraph which is insufficient to establish notability.   scope_creep Talk  10:37, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment - Since I was the initially challenged party above, thanks to Scope Creep for analysing the sources before I got to it. Allow me to add that "reliable" and "significant" are not vague matters of opinion, but instead are sharply-defined terms in Wikipedia's notability guidelines. See WP:RS, WP:SIGCOV, WP:IS, and various other policies that are blue-linked to those. ––  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 16:53, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per lack of significant coverage. I follow Irish music and poetry here in NYC (I attended a Zoom talk by Pádraig Ó Tuama yesterday), and I've never heard of this guy. A single AllMusic cite is not deep coverage. There have are no other reliable sources in the article. Bearian (talk) 16:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm an avid folkie and randomly came across this page and this discussion through research I'm doing on Odetta. I've seen hundreds of other artist pages with significantly less citable sources and way less legitimate. Seems weird that this one is being singled out. This guy seems "notable" to me. FolkAstorian (talk) 9:57, 14 September 2020 (PST)
 * Editor is a WP:SPA and has made zero other edits to Wikipedia. Perhaps its Vincent Cross himself?   scope_creep Talk  17:51, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Have you all tried doing just a simple Google search on this guy? Speaks for itself. Many years worth of references to pull from. Open to suggestions on how to edit page to properly abide by Wikipedia rules. User:NEMusic (talk) 13:22, 15 September 2020 (EST)
 * Most people have some information on the internet somewhere, so doing a simple Google Search isn't good enough. It is quality of the information. I has to be significant, independent, reliable and in-depth. It must include certain facts that will proves one of the clauses in WP:MUSICBIO. If 2 or 3 sources verify one of those clauses, it would be keep. The WP:SIGCOV part is measure of much WP:RS coverage there is, and there is none.     scope_creep Talk  00:45, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 11:33, 21 September 2020 (UTC) Vinne is one of the most original Irish songwriters in years — Preceding unsigned comment added by Athlonetownfc (talk • contribs) 22 September 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 21:20, 29 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.