Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Visual gallery of toucans


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. BJ Talk 07:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Visual gallery of toucans

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested prod. This page is nothing but a collection of images, which violates WP:NOT. If it would be expanded to be truly an identification guide (which hasn't been done in its first year of existence), then it would still violate WP:NOT a how-to guide, and it would be at the wrong title anyway. The page as it stands is not an article and can (with its current title) never be an acceptable wikipedia page. Fram (talk) 09:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC) 
 * Delete nice images, but not appropriate for an article. Brilliantine (talk) 09:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete for failing WP:NOT. Huon (talk) 13:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  13:54, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:NOTREPOSITORY policy, item 4. As per nom, expanding as a field guide would not be an encyclopedic topic. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete not a proper article aubject. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk to me The mess I've made 15:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not for image galleries. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 22:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not a repository; articles consist only of image collections. Schfifty  Three  01:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Jerry   delusional ¤ kangaroo 22:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Note the previous close of this AfD was contested and overturned at DRV. The closing comment is still viewable in the history. Jerry   delusional ¤ kangaroo 22:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note to closer - This deletion request was closed as "The result of the debate was keep, as no consensus. Closing comments: This really should have been taken to the policy level for wider community input, since this effort may be used to set standards by setting a precedent." While not directly relating to the present types of galleries, I think the comment about "This really should have been taken to the policy level for wider community input" should be taken into account in closing this AfD. AfD is not the place to establish policy level decisions. -- Suntag  ☼  14:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment Some links that may add to the discussion include (in no particular order): Category:Images of toucans *** Flower gallery (2nd nomination) ***  List of birds of Panama ***  List of birds of Nicaragua ***  Visual gallery of Adelidae AfD ***  Gallery of beloniform fishes AfD ***  Image:Flores.gif ***  Air Disasters Picture Gallery AfD ***  Gallery of 1900 Galveston Hurricane images AfD ***  Articles for deletion/Flower gallery ***  Galleries ***  Gallery namespace ***  Meetup/Gallery ***  Category:Wikipedia image galleries ***  WikiProject Cats/Gallery ***  WikiProject Dogs/Gallery ***  Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not/galleries ***  BreastNot work safe images. -- Suntag  ☼  22:46, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is another one Handbook of the Birds of the World. -- Suntag  ☼  06:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Merge into Toucans as a gallery.- There are bird field guide books largely composed of photos with a little text. I have one on clouds that is just photos and names with an index table of information. A gallery of images of nature similar to bird field guide books would seem encyclopedic. Wikipedia does include galleries in articles. See, for example, the twenty eight images in BreastNot work safe images. There even is an edit button that produces  for an article. It would been nice to see discussion on why articles similar to nature field guide books cannot be maintained in Wikipedia. I think that images can convey much more information than some lists we have.  However, in view of the prior attempts to establish article galleries as a format for articles (see above), this issue may be better resolved by a wider policy discussion. -- Suntag  ☼  22:54, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I am personally OK with the merge, but it will create several problems: 1) The gallery is almost as long as the article is; I'm not sure that a merge will result in a balanced article. 2) What if me, or someone else would want to make a similar gallery, about a family that has much more species? Nikola (talk) 05:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Article size applies to articles and Summary style provides more instructions along those lines. -- Suntag  ☼  14:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge as Suntag suggests. A very reasonable way to deal with this for the time being. DGG (talk) 00:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete: the toucan article should not be cluttered with a gallery; toucon photos should be put in their commons category and the existing link to the commons category is all that is required.--Grahame (talk) 00:39, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Commons is not an encyclopedia. A toucan gallery on Commons should not be an encyclopedic overview of toucan species; it should be a gallery of the best toucan pictures we have, and it should link toucan species galleries and categories, not to Wikipedia articles about species. Nikola (talk) 05:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge per Suntag. Though moving to commons with a link from Toucan may be another viable option.  This is clearly a valuable, even necessary project but the topic is a poor fit for a stand-alone article.  Eluchil404 (talk) 03:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds.   —-- Suntag  ☼  06:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, no merge obviously not an article, so can't stand alone. Shouldn't be dumped as a gallery at Toucan either. I've just excised a trivia section from that article, and a massive gallery is just pictorial trivia. The images are available for appropriate use in articles, they don't have to be in use all the time. jimfbleak (talk) 06:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Picking up Nikola's point, what about having galleries for parrot, hummingbird, tyrant flycatcher and Columbidae, each with 300+ species? jimfbleak (talk) 06:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete, don't merge. Galleries of species is what Wiki Commons is for. Wikipedia is for articles. Now the article on toucans could be improved, no doubt, and when I have time I will get round to it (after I have finished woodpecker and swallow and new zealand wren and gull and auk and tern and god knows how many articles. And when I do a representative number of images of the family can be included - and it isn't a big family. To touch on previous comments - a separate article that lists every species is appropriate in families of multiple species but it would be unfeasable to have a visual list of the tyrant flycatchers., for example. Sabine's Sunbird   talk  09:01, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete I presume they are all on commons? Selected images can and I am sure will be spread about the various toucan pages. So I suppose that is merge bits. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete: Per WP:NOTREPOSITORY. There is Wikimedia Commons for this page.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 14:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Prose, list, gallery comment. WP:NOTREPOSITORY applies to "Mere collections of photographs or media files with no text to go with the articles." This page has some text. I think the general desire here is to have a Wikipedia article designed to help the reader distinguish between similar objects of natural occurrence such as wildlife (plants and animals) and minerals. As part of a publicly-accessible Internet guide, Wikipedia gallery articles are. I believe, to be a browsable picture guide organized by family, color, shape, location or other descriptors to help users distinguish animals, plants, and minerals. I think the a main question is how little text is enough? When you factor in the significant information conveyed by images of naturally occuring objects organized by family, color, shape, location, prehaps less text is needed for such an article than other forms of Wikipedia articles (list, prose). Before deleting this aritlce, there should be consensus on whether this article contains enough text or a likelihood that it will contain enough text in the future. This AfD should not serve as a place to establish policy and then implement that very same policy.
 * What text? Text means coherent prose, not labels for images or groups of images? A commons gallery is the appropriate location, Wikipedia isn't a how-to, Any proper prose should be added to Toucan itself. jimfbleak (talk) 16:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Rename and expand to a title such as List of toucan species or similar, including a short piece of text describing each species (e.g. where it can be found). A "list of..." article wouldn't require much expansion, and would provide a suitable place for displaying the images.  --RFBailey (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think this solves the problem. If you are going to have one image per species, you might as well do it at Toucan, since there aren't an impossible number of species (see Nuthatch). If you have all the images in the List of toucan species, you are back with a gallery. jimfbleak (talk) 06:34, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete, hopefully someone will organise the pictures over at commons, and the commons link on toucan will make them available. The possible rename to list and expand wouldn't be terrible (see List of birds of Nicaragua, although who is going to do the work?), but making an article just to host pictures is the wrong way around for an encylopedia. Pictures illustrate an article, and article doesn't host pictures - wp is not flicker.Yobmod (talk) 14:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete The toucans are watching you... Wikipedia is not a collection of Big Brother's toucan slaves. Erik the Red  2    01:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.