Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vladimir Doknić


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 04:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Vladimir Doknić

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As stated, Vladimir Doknic is playing in the Macedonian First League. Fails WP:ATHLETE. Anti venin  08:42, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 15:20, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:ATHLETE. I could not find any other clubs that he has played for. --Numyht (talk) 12:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Not list in, no soucre. Matthew_hk   t  c  12:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom Govvy (talk) 13:40, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; fails WP:ATHLETE. GiantSnowman 15:22, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:ATHLETE. Rosiestep (talk) 02:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep The Macedonian First League is the highest possible national level you can get which is textbook example of meeting WP:ATHLETE. What exactly am I missing here? Surely it's impossible for a nominator and 5 commenters to miss that? I'm particularly worried about the nominator's statement. He first explains how the subject meets criteria and goes on to say he fails them... - Mgm|(talk) 10:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Presumably (although he doesn't state it) the nominator believes the Macedonian League is not fully professional, as required by WP:ATHLETE. So we'd need some confirmation one way or t'other on this..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:16, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * From my interpretation of WP:ATHLETE only those players selected to play for the World Cup / other international championships are considered notable, regardless of which country they are playing from. So if the footballer in question was a part of his national team, he should be considered notable. This might be incorrect, someone please confirm so I can correct future mistakes. =) Anti  venin  13:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where you're getting that from. WP:ATHLETE says simply that a player needs to have played at the fully professional level of a sport, it doesn't say anything about having to play in the World Cup.  If that was the case we'd have to delete about 20,000 footballer articles..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:08, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll copy-paste what I wrote at Mgm's talk page: The second point seems a follow up to the first. Else, those two points directly contradict each other. The first one says if the tournament is the highest in the country, it's notable. The second says the tournament has to be the highest amateur level of a sport. The Macedonian First League falls under the first, but fails the second. Higher leagues, the FIFA World Cup for example, fall under both the first and second. So I tend to gravitate more towards the interpretation I stated above. (Here the two points refer to the two criteria at WP:ATHLETE) Anti  venin  13:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:ATHLETE says nothing about the highest league in a given country. It says that a sportsperson must have either played at a fully professional level (eg any of the top four divisions in English football but not any level in Welsh football as there are no professional leagues in that country) or at the highest amateur level (usually taken to mean the Olympic or world championships). -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you then judge the professional levels of a sport? A professional would be someone who is paid as a sports person. The Football Conference is the 5th division in English football. Yet it has ' fully professional' players too. So would you include them in the article? If yes, what about the 6th division? 7th? 8th? When do we stop? Anti  venin  13:24, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A fully professional league is one in which all players are full-time professional sportspeople. The Conference is not fully professional, as at least five teams are only semi-professional.  Therefore players who have never played higher than the Conference do not get to have articles on WP and in fact dozens have been deleted for just that reason. -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:28, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea. Understood. I'll keep it in mind next time. The criteria should be more clear though. Anti  venin  14:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. While looking for information on the Macedonia League, I foud this rather intriguing story, which says that there are less than 100 profesisonal players in the country and that some top level clubs have no pro players at all. I'll continue digging for something more concrete, but this is something worth noting. Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  10:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, this story makes things a little clearer - "Seven out of the 12 clubs did not have a single player registered as a professional player although all players in the Macedonian First League are playing professionally". So it appears the league is fully professional... at least it is officially. I wonder if this mess has been sorted out though. Bettia   (bring on the trumpets!)  10:45, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.