Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/VoterMarch


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to  Louis J. Posner. There seems to be a general agreement amoung the uninvolved editors that this does no pass the notability guidelines for inclusion. There also seems to be an agreement for a redirect from this location to Louis J. Posner, the main organizer of the event. Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  05:23, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

VoterMarch

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:ORG. 90+% of the "coverage" of this group came between Jan. 10 and 21, 2001, consisted of a few sentences usually identifying and providing context to the source of a quote, and were mostly reprints of or generally based on the same AP wire piece that ran in that period. This isn't substantial coverage in reliable sources, and with the AP wire issue, there are questions about intellectual independence. The fact that so much of this coverage stems from the January 2001 protest also tees up a WP:ONEEVENT issue.

The sources in the article are not exceptions. Either they fit the concern above, are inconsequential mentions, or are simply unreliable. Searching LexisNexis for  brings up fewer than 30 hits, including several false positives. One article is entirely about Les Souci, a few are about Lou Posner's 2008 arrest and conviction, and almost everything else is subject to the concerns mentioned above. The same happens with a search for "VoterMarch".

In short, we have here an organization that got a few trivial mentions in the press because people got quoted and identified as affiliated with the group, where all that coverage stemmed from the same protest in early 2001 that was attended by many, many other organizations. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 12:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect Though a well-crafted work product designed to give a greater-than-justified air of notability, the article lacks significant coverage. There are lots of cites, so at first blush, it looks notable. However,
 * Archives-- self pubbed in deeper context of inaugral protests
 * Montgomery and Santana-- short Posner quote
 * BBC-- breif mention in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * Couloumbis-- brief Rogers quote in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * Daily News-- brief Rogers quote in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * Tuscaloosa News-- brief Rogers quote in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * CNN brief mention in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * NYTimes review of movie-- no mention of subject in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * ITVS-- no mention of subject in deeper context of inaugaral protests
 * Clearly, the subject had a role in the Protests against President Bush fils, so while not notable enough for an article, there should be a redirect to an article about the protests (could not find one) or to First_inauguration_of_George_W._Bush. Dloh cierekim  14:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Agreed, a separate article on the January 20, 2001 Counter-Inaugural Protests is also needed.  See 2005 article on January_20,_2005_counter-inaugural_protest.108.176.141.200 (talk) 11:01, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete or redirect per Dlohcierekim above. Lots of passing mentions, nothing in depth, no persistence in coverage.  JohnInDC (talk) 19:48, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep or redirect Zack Exley, former Chief Revenue Officer of the Wikipedia Foundation, was the founder of Counter Coup and was instrumental to the formation of Voter March, and he should be included in the VoterMarch article. See, Exley, Zack, "Organizing Online"  Organizing Online, How a former union organizer accidentally sparked a nationwide election protest movement, all via the Internet. Mother Jones — Dec. 9, 2000; See, We Will Not Get Over It,, by Jackson K. and Sharon M. Thoreau, Acknowledgments, p. 3: "We particularly thank ...Lou Posner of Voter March...Zack Exley of Counter Coup"170.170.59.139 (talk) 07:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment The book, We Will Not Get Over It:Restoring a Legitimate White House, was published as an eBook by BookLocker. http://booklocker.com/books/333.html This is an important part of U.S. history that should not be swept under the rug.108.176.141.200 (talk) 11:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * See Sockpuppet investigations/Lawline Dloh cierekim  20:19, 6 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Comments

Due to a Conflict of Interest with the article subject, I am not voting or offering my opinion as to keep, delete, redirect, or merge, but offer some comments.

Voter March's initial event was in organizing the Counter-Inaugural Protest on January 20, 2001 in response to the 2000 Presidential election which was very controversial and contentious. After the 2000 Presidential election controversy, grassroots groups sprung up throughout the nation. Voter March was the umbrella grassroots group that organized hundreds of smaller groups throughout the nation to a large demonstration in Dupont Circle in Washington, DC. Voter March, International Action Center, National Organization of Women and National Action Network (Al Sharpton) were the main protest groups at the 2001 Presidential inauguration.

Following the Counter-Inaugural Protest, Voter March engaged in other events, including the Voter Rights March on May 19, 2001 in Washington DC and San Francisco, and a series of speaking and book tours for BBC reporter and author Greg Palast and former prosecutor and author Vincent Bugliosi. Subsequently, Voter March was involved in the Anti-Iraq War movement, the 2004 Stolen Election campaign and the 2012 Tax Wall Street campaign.

During 2001 and 2002, there were a large number of references to articles on Voter March. However, most of these articles have since been archived and are very difficult to retrieve.

References to Voter March from secondary sources, are as follows:


 * Counter-Inaugural Protests (Jan. 20, 2001)


 * Protesters line inaugural parade route, CNN.com, AllPolitics.com, January 20, 2001
 * "Although we represent different constituencies we are finding that we share a number of common concerns, especially outrage about the trampling of the electoral process and the disenfranchisement of voters," said Les Souci, an organizer of Voter March, which wants a Voters' Bill of Rights and campaign finance reform.

Inaugural Protests Take Shape Published on Thursday, December 21, 2000 in the Washington Post, by David Montgomery and Arthur Santana, Common Dreams
 * The Washington Post'' reported further that: "Other activists are planning a Voters March to call for election reform and the abolishment of the electoral college. "Our nation has been traumatized by what has happened in this election," said Louis Posner, a New York attorney leading the effort."


 * With political parties, special interests and labor unions spending large sums to organize and communicate over the Internet, it is not surprising that it has become the principal tool for strategic communication and mobilization of protest activism. Ideas are presented in affinity chat rooms until there are enough activists to start an email list. Soon a Webpage appears and the organization is under way. Voter March also claims to have been formed in this way. Lou Posner, a founding member of the group, tells Insight it arose spontaneously on the Web a week after Election Day.
 * "We were formed as a grass-roots organization in response to election irregularities and problems," says Posner. Voter March played a key role in organizing the main protest rally on Inauguration Day, acting as an umbrella organization for hundreds of smaller groups from across the country. They started at 10 a.m. with a rally at Dupont Circle in Northwest Washington before heading through the city on a three-mile march. Posner claimed his group is more mainstream than many of the others in his penumbra, but assured in the days leading up to the inauguration that marchers would be peaceful. "We're taking a pretty strong position that everything we're going to do is going to be legal and lawful," Posner told Insight...This sort of thing may help explain why groups such as Voter March made such an effort to distance themselves from the more experienced troupes of protesters. "Our group does not represent the `professional' protesters that you saw at the World Trade Organization [and] World Bank [meetings] and Republican convention," Posner tells Insight."

Bush: Who's Protesting and Why, BBC News, January 20, 2001
 * BBC reported "There are a lot of moderate-thinking Americans out there wondering how we got to this point - not only why Bush is president, but why his cabinet nominations are so far to the right," said Bob Rogers of the group Voter March. Voter March is part of a coalition of groups, including the National Organization of Women and the National Action Network, that have called for Saturday to be a non-violent 'Day of Resistance' to the presidency of Mr Bush."


 * The Philadelphia Inquirer reported "Bush may be president, but I know that when he goes to sit in the Oval Office for the first time, he's going to look out the window, and see and hear us," said Bob Rogers, a founder and organizer of yesterday's Voter March, a nonpartisan group protesting voter disenfranchisement and championing reforms to the Electoral College. "I don't want to personalize this," Rogers said of Bush. "I'm not going to scream 'Hail to the thief,' as others may do. But I will say, 'Respect the presidency,' because during this election, it was not respected." Inauguration Protests Largest Since Nixon in 1973 Published on Sunday, January 21, 2001 in the Philadelphia Inquirer, Common Dreams, by Angela Couloumbis.

Thousands Take to Street to Protest, Daily News, Bowling Green, AP, Jan. 2001. Inauguration Protests Largest Since Nixon, The Victoria Advocate, January 21, 2001. Thousands Take to Street in Protest of Inauguration, The Southeast Missourian, January 21, 2001. Gore Returns to Private Life, The Tuscaloosa News, AP, January 21, 2001.
 * The Associated Press reported "Bob Rogers one of the organizers of the "Voter March" said the fact that Bush captured the White House even though Al Gore won the popular vote by 500,000 votes guarantied busloads of demonstrators. "These are moderate working people, motivated by anger, embarrassment, that kind of sentiment," he said. "They're wondering we can put a man on the moon and why can't we count the vote?"


 * Thousands Protest Bush’s Inauguration, Salon Magazine, Jan. 20, 2001 @
 * "Others who had marched with filmmaker and celebrity Nader endorser Michael Moore from the city’s Dupont Circle neighborhood. The group was ultimately allowed to proceed down to the parade route, and a crisis was averted."


 * Protesters scuffle with police along inaugural route, USA Today, Jan. 20, 2001, at
 * Though protesters had many disparate causes, most said they were motivated by the Florida election controversy.
 * Bob Rogers, one of the organizers of the "Voter March," said the fact that Bush captured the White House even though Al Gore won the popular vote by 500,000 guaranteed busloads of demonstrators.
 * "These are moderate, working people, motivated by anger, embarrassment, that kind of sentiment," he said. "They're wondering, 'We put a man on the moon, why can't we count the vote?"'


 * Democrats.com, David Lytel Speech at Voter March rally


 * Voter Rights March (May 19, 2001)


 * CNN reported "Election reform advocates planned to rally in Washington, D.C., and San Francisco, California, to push for changes in the nation's voting system and a "full investigation" of the 2000 presidential election
 * Saturday's demonstrations are organized by Voter March, the same group that brought thousands to Washington to protest Bush's inauguration in January. District police said at the time that the size of the demonstration rivaled those held at the Nixon inaugural in 1973. Voter March founder Louis Posner said that he expected a diverse crowd at Saturday's rally -- "male, female, old, young, black, white, many of the 'first-time' protesters," he said. Voter March seeks a reform of the election process—including possibly scrapping the Electoral College system that allowed Bush to prevail. "The indignation over the Supreme Court's highly partisan decision cuts across all social lines," Posner said. "Voter March continues to grow as more and more people commit their energies to ensuring that the rights of voters can never again be trampled."

Voters Rally for Electoral Reform, CNN Politics, May 19, 2001.

A Report form the Voter Rights March M19 Democratic Underground, May 22, 2001, by William Rivers Pitt.
 * The Democrat Underground reported: "The Voter Rights March to Restore Democracy had several specific purposes behind its inception: to bring attention to the fact that the November election was a catastrophe and that election reform is a moral American imperative, to point out that some 180,000 votes have yet to be recounted in Florida despite a requirement for same inked into the books of the Sunshine State's laws, to cast a glaring light upon the scurrilous actions taken by the United States Supreme Court on December 13, 2000.... We heard from Lou Posner, one of the central organizers of the march, who looked like a blue-suited roadie for Crosby, Stills & Nash, but had the eyes of an assassin with his mark in the gunsight. We heard from Bob Kuntz of OralMajorityOnline.com, who declared his candidacy for the governorship of Florida and delineated all the reasons why Jeb Bush had to go. We heard from a woman who had been an observer during the recount, and she bore witness to the mob action and calumny that motivated this march...Soon enough, the moment arrived. The signs and banners were hoisted, and the crowd formed into a long column as we began our march to the Capitol steps. I took a spot at the vanguard, just behind the main Voters Rights March banner and next to an elderly group bearing a loud sign that read, "WWII Veterans Against Bush." An older woman with a bullhorn became the chant leader; she looked and sounded like a union organizer with many marches under her belt. In front of us all, a man bore a huge American flag, and another man made sure that none of us marched in front of it. The flag was to be first."


 * Footage from Louis Posner's speech, VoterMarch Archives: Speech of Lou Posner, founder and chair of Voter March at the Voter Rights March to Restore Democracy]. at the West Capitol steps was seen on the political documentary film, Florida Fights Back: Resisting the Stolen Election.


 * BushWatch, Jerry Politex Speech at Voter March


 * Citizens for a Legitimate Government, Press Release on Voter March


 * Antonin Scalia Protests (2001)


 * On Sep. 10, 2001, Voter March organized a protest against Justice Antonin Scalia at the Hofstra University Ethics Conference.| VOTER MARCH PROTESTS SCALIA AT HOFSTRA U. ETHICS CONFERENCE, Sep. 10, 2001.


 * Voter March Speaking Tours (2001-2002)


 * On March 10, 2001, Louis Posner, the founder of VoterMarch, was a plenary speaker at the "Grassroots Use of the Internet" conference at Yale University.Yale University, Conference: Grassroots use of the Internet, March 10, 2001


 * In his book review, Louis Posner writes of the The Betrayal of America,  “The Betrayal of America”, Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi accuses the Supreme Court's conservative majority of criminal conduct bordering on treason, by Charles Taylor, Salon, July 4, 2001.
 * "With his powerful, brilliant, and courageous expose of crime by the highest court in the land Vincent Bugliosi takes his place in the pantheon of patriots who have stood up and spoken out against injustice." Vincent Bugliosi's New Book Blows the Lid Off the Illegal Usurpation of the White House, The Betrayal of America, American Politics Journal, May 6, 2001


 * Protests Against the Iraq War (2002 TO 2003)

Protest Bush Speaking at United Nations | What Really Happened.
 * On September 12, 2002, VoterMarch organized the first Anti-War protest in the United States against President Bush and his Administration's plans to wage war against Iraq. While U.S. President George W. Bush spoke to the United Nations General Assembly, outside the United Nations building, over 1,000 people attended a protest organized by VoterMarch. Speakers included VoterMarch founder and national chairperson Louis Posner, singer songwriter Patti Smith, former Students for a Democratic Society President, professor Todd Gitlin, and author/professor Mark Crispin Miller  VoterMarch Archives: Protest of Bush Speaking at UN ]


 * 2004 Presidential Election Controversy


 * During the 2004 presidential election, VoterMarch protested against irregularities in voting and in the use of suspect computerized voting systems and machines.Stolen Election 2004 Blog


 *  Tax Wall Street (2012)


 * VoterMarch has continued its voter rights campaigns in 2012 with the Tax Wall Street educational blog and in joining Greg Palast's Billionaires and Ballot Bandits Action Groups.

There is also a large image gallery for Voter March at Wikimedia Commons at which includes a picture of U.S. Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi speaking at the San Francisco Voter March event on May 19, 2001, at  VoterMarch (talk) 10:02, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Images:


 * Get rid of it per nominator! — Preceding unsigned comment added by IHeartUM (talk • contribs) 13:36, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment  The above comment is not backed up by any independent reasoning and should be disregarded.108.176.141.200 (talk) 14:12, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete fails WP:NOTABLE. And the comment made by 108.176.141.200 is baseless, and no one should pay attention to him, sorry, her! 166.205.50.87 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:41, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment The Votermarch article represents an important part of U.S. History in which a number of people and groups were involved including Zack Exley of the Wikipedia Foundation.  Rather than trying to destroy the VoterMarch Article, why don't you do something constructive and write articles about the other groups that were involved?   Wikipedia is a not-for-profit organization that claims to be a website for everyone to write and edit.170.170.59.139 (talk) 16:39, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment There has also been a lot of "bad faith" editing in this Article by JohninDC and others who deleted a substantial amount of content, references and citations.170.170.59.139 (talk) 17:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC) Then, after the Article is made weaker it gets nominated for deletion.
 * There were a lot of people involved in Voter March and deleting the Article would be a slap in the face to Zack Exley, Nancy Pelosi, Vincent Bugliosi and Greg Palast. Know who these people are before you act capriciously.108.176.141.200 (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Merge into Louis Posner, which may merit its own AfD; but if it is kept, that's where any record of VM should go. –  SJ  +  02:04, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.