Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/W. W. Patterson


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  20:05, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

W. W. Patterson

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small town mayor, fails WP:POLITICIAN Also, a low-quality article since it is mostly copied and pasted from Rusf10 (talk) 03:13, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 06:18, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 06:18, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep I am inclined to keep since he appears with a full biography in Kentucky: A history of the state. --RAN (talk) 21:38, 15 June 2018 (UTC) !vote by blocked user--Rusf10 (talk) 16:17, 17 June 2018 (UTC) unstruck; editor not blocked at the time of the comment power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 06:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:BASIC requires multiple sources.--Rusf10 (talk) 02:19, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment. User was not banned when he expressed his opinion. There are multiple sources in the article. gidonb (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete He's only notable because he was mayor of a small town, and there aren't enough sources to get him past WP:GNG otherwise. There are many poorly sourced mayor articles for Ashland, Kentucky. SportingFlyer  talk  16:54, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is reasonable to hold anyone with a "biographical sketch" in the following book notable. William Henry Perrin, J. H. Battle, G. C. Kniffin (1888) "Kentucky: A History of the State, Embracing a Concise Account of the Origin and Development of the Virginia Colony ; Its Expansion Westward, and the Settlement of the Frontier Beyond the Alleghanies : the Erection of Kentucky as an Independent State, and Its Subsequent Development. Louisville & Chicago: F. A. Battey.
 * Interestingly, William Worth Patterson does not only have a decent entry in this "concise" Kentucky state history. He also has a "full page" portrait in the book. Really a bit smaller but given a full page. This image is included in WP as it is now in public domain. Patterson is also included in Ashland Centennial Committee (1954) A History of Ashland, Kentucky 1786-1954.
 * As a historic 19th century figure there are no WP:BLP concerns. Wikipedia has an unfortunate tendency towards WP:RECENTISM and falls short on historic entries such as the one on Patterson. gidonb (talk) 23:01, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * again, WP:BASIC requires multiple sources. Also, by my estimation there are approximately 1200 entries in "Kentucky: A History of the State", are all 1200 to be considered notable?--Rusf10 (talk) 23:50, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm interested in the notability guideline regarding full page photos in books, myself. Anyways, being listed in that encyclopedia doesn't establish notability - if you read the descriptions of the people around him, they just list occupations, marriages, children, et cetera. The source is a directory listing and doesn't pass WP:GNG. Also fails to address the lack of WP:NPOL. Just because he's historic doesn't mean he's notable. SportingFlyer  talk  01:38, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned there are multiple sources. Newspapers and history books. I mentioned two books above, i.e. good for basic. He is mentioned in many articles at newspapers.com. Finally, there are just over 500 biographical entries in this concise history of Kentucky so Rusf10's estimate is over the top. gidonb (talk) 02:29, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I made a rough estimate by looking at the index in the back of the book, maybe its only 1000, but I have no idea where you're getting 500 from. But even if it were 500, I ask you again, are all 500 entries notable? As for multiple sources, let's see them. As of right now we have this book, another local history book that really does very little to add to notability, and findagrave.com which should not even be used at all. This is reminiscent of a previous AfD about another article, where you claimed sources existed, but refused to tell us what they were.--Rusf10 (talk) 03:16, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * 1200 is a very bad estimate as is 1000. There is a list of the biographic entries at the end of the Kentucky history book. Just over 500, as I said. People are in these books for a reason. I have added yet another source to this article. In contrast to the impression you are trying to create, the references are solid. gidonb (talk) 03:29, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I know there is a list at the end of the book, where do you think I came up with my estimate? But let's go with 500, have you read some of the other entries? There is no way everyone in this book is notable. Also, your new source appears to be a trivial mention in the local newspaper, the references are far from solid.--Rusf10 (talk) 05:11, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If you actually looked at this list before making an estimate that does make things worse. So you are always going to argue no matter how often you are proven wrong. You can also withdraw or just read everyone's opinions. It's your choice. gidonb (talk) 05:24, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * As for your question: yes it's very reasonable that there would be 500 notable people in the entire state of Kentucky in over a century in arts, business, education, politics, medicine, journalism, law, etc. Such a time span allows for five and more generations while Kentucky's population was surging. Kentucky was relatively populated in the 19th century. It crossed the 1 million mark in the early 1850s! At that time it had about 30% the population of New York and 50% that of Ohio. In general, for previous centuries, we are underpopulated and this AfD does not help fix that problem. gidonb (talk) 06:46, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Article is abundantly sourced. As above, population requirements need to be adjusted for their significance at the time. Bangabandhu (talk) 00:57, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There are no population requirements that I'm aware of. This of been part of your argument at various AfDs, he/she represents x amount of people so they must be notable. When in fact there is no such guideline. The only guideline is WP:NPOL which says only "major local political figures who have received significant press coverage" are presumed notable. So we need multiple indepth sources that show some recognition outside of their town or county, population is not considered. Obviously a mayor of a large city will have no problem with significant press coverage. The mayor of New York City is a major local political figure with significant press coverage, the mayor of Ashland, Kentucky is not.--Rusf10 (talk) 01:07, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Abundantly sourced" points at the WP:GNG. Per WP:POLOUTCOMES: "Municipal politicians are not inherently notable just for being in politics, but neither are they inherently non-notable just because they are in local politics. Each case is evaluated on its own individual merits." WP:NPOL makes the same claim in less detail. gidonb (talk) 02:07, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I've never said anything of the sort before. Why don't you provide some kind of citation for your claim that "This of been part of your argument at various AfDs" or are you just intent on nominating articles? Bangabandhu (talk) 03:30, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep There seems to be enough sources here to meet GNG, including the biography in the book. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 16:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ashland KY is nowhere near large enough to hand its mayors an automatic free pass over WP:NPOL #2 just for existing, but the article is not sourced anywhere close to well enough to actually get him over the bar. No, it is not reasonable to extend an automatic notability freebie to every single person who happens to have a biographical sketch in one particular book — for starters, a biographical sketch is not necessarily substantial enough to pass GNG all by itself, but the other sources here aren't helping either: there's another even more local history book which is being cited only for the basic fact that he served as mayor but not for any substantive content about his mayoralty; his entry on Find-a-Grave (which is not a notability-assisting source); a blurb in a government report for which he's the author and not the subject; and a "hire me" classified ad that he placed himself — which means that the Kentucky book is still the only source here that's doing anything at all, but it isn't doing enough all by itself as the article's only useful source. And for another thing, what makes that book more special than every other local history book that isn't enough coverage to make a smalltown mayor notable all by itself? Bearcat (talk) 18:39, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi an alleged "hire me" classified ad that Patterson would have placed himself is clearly a misunderstanding. After adding more newspaper items, the article is now sourced by many items and a decent biographical entry in one of Kentucky's statewide history books. gidonb (talk) 03:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I read the thing personally — and whatever it was, it very definitely wasn't reliable source coverage about him. So if I misunderstood anything, that something was not its failure to help passage of GNG. Bearcat (talk) 06:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reconsidering. Patterson had a lot of press coverage during his lifetime. The biographic entry I think is most important and the press coverage supportive. Passes the WP:GNG. gidonb (talk) 13:13, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep - Article passes WP:CCPOL and is reliably sourced with multiple, in-depth sources. As a mayor and public figure, inclusion does not, in my opinion, violate WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE or other WP:NOT. Smmurphy(Talk) 14:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:NPOL is not exclusionary here, the way it is for contemporaneous political candidates; it's obviously not met as an inclusionary guideline either. Regarding WP:GNG, "Kentucky: A history of the state" is one secondary source, and "A History of Ashland, Kentucky, 1786 to 1954" may be another.  Contemporaneous newspaper coverage is a primary source.  It's not entirely clear whether the Ashland book (by the "Ashland Centennial Committee") is independent, though. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 06:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.