Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WMRO (AM)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. WP:SNOW. Discussion of policy should continue elsewhere. Potentially a Nomination Withdrawn, in good faith to the nom. (non-admin closure) D ARTH P ANDA duel 06:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

WMRO (AM)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

I want to put this article forward to ascertain whether or not ALL licensed radio stations are in fact notable and worthy of inclusion. This article is in all likelihood created by one of the husband and wife team that run this very local AM radio station. It has no third party refs/links and I can not see how it is in any way notable. Paste (talk) 13:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to withdraw this nomination if it is the policy of Wikipedia that the mere fact it is a radio station makes it notable and it seems that the other contributors to this debate feel the same. I must say though that I am incredulous that this is the case but I guess I'll have to be the odd one out here Paste (talk) 08:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's been the way it's been treated. To answer the question, it's somewhat difficult to find the commentary, and it's not so much a strict rule as it is a "common outcome".  This is from :  "Licensed radio and TV stations are notable if they broadcast over the air and originate at least a portion of their programming schedule in their own studios. Lower power radio stations limited to a small neighborhood, such as Part 15 operations in the United States or stations with a VF# callsign in Canada, are not inherently notable, although they may be kept if some real notability can be demonstrated. Stations that only rebroadcast the signal of another station should be redirected to their programming source (e.g. CICO-TV is a redirect to TVOntario.)  Internet radio stations are notable if they can demonstrate a clear and verifiable cultural notability or influence. AOL Radio and WOXY, for instance, are clearly notable, but your own personal Peercast stream with three listeners is not.
 * Satellite radio channels on XM, Sirius or WorldSpace may be acceptable, but if they merely relay an existing conventional broadcast service such as Fox News or Deutsche Welle, then the satellite service should be written about as part the existing service's article rather than as a separate article.
 * Television series broadcast nationally by a major network or produced by a major studio are notable." The concept, as I understand it, is that governments regulate the use of the airwaves, and decide whether a a station should be licensed.  In the United States, it's the FCC does this.   Once a station is granted the right to broadcast in a particular range, the common outcome so far has been that it does not have to justify its importance further through newspaper coverage.  In some cases, such "inherent notability" is presumed in order to avoid notability debates.  As another example, a Congressman from Illinois in 1920 may not have done anything significant, but the question is made moot by a guideline.  In this case, this is a "common outcome", not a set guideline, but there are some things-- high schools, radio stations, elected officials-- that are normally given a presumption.  I hope that helps.  Mandsford (talk) 14:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Strongest Possible Keep. Its a radio station. Its very much encyclopedic.--CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 22:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep Tone of nomination demonstrates that this was nominated to prove a point. Nyttend (talk) 01:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep I think that the nominator admitted that the nomination was made "to ascertain whether or not ALL licensed radio stations are in fact notable and worthy of inclusion; he/she might not have been aware of the admonition against making a nomination in order to prove a point, and testing the rules with a nomination is similar. Anyway, now you know more about the policy concerning licensed radio stations and the policy concerning WP:POINT.  If you agree, now, that Wikipedia has a policy on station articles, withdrawing the nomination would seem to be the appropriate thing to do.  Many a time, I've had to say "I stand corrected", and I think that's true of all of us.  We learn the rules by participating in Wikipedia.  Mandsford (talk) 03:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep The station is notable. Alansohn (talk) 05:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Nomination made only to make a point. All stations are notable, period, and even if the article was written by station staff, at least it gives a foundation to go from so we can fix it further.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:35, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have reduced the promotional tone of the article considerably so all concerns have hopefully been addressed.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions.   —• Gene93k (talk) 12:55, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 12:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep Government licensed full-power broadcast radio stations are notable, procedural keep in any case as nominator is making a WP:POINT. - Dravecky (talk) 14:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment This is a classic case of one of the problems with Wikipedia, if I had not mentioned that I wanted 'to ascertain whether or not ALL licensed radio stations are in fact notable' and merely put the article forward for discussion all would be well. The outcome would be the same but I wouldn't have editors like Dravecky  talking about 'procedural keeps' due to WP:POINT. I have been active on Wikipedia for over two years and have never heard of WP:POINT and now having read it I take a very dim view of the fact that I am being accused of disrupting Wikipedia or whatever phrase it uses. How about accepting the fact that some people contribute a lot to Wikipedia without knowing about every policy and guideline and are in fact acting in good faith. Anyhow as I stated earlier today (see above) I'm happy to withdraw this AfD. Paste (talk) 14:56, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply My intent was certainly not to accuse you of anything. I was merely responding to your stated intent and reasoning for nominating this article for deletion. In any case, if you will review the article as it now stands, I think you will find it much improved over the state you found it in yesterday. - Dravecky (talk) 15:36, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply Thank you, I appreciate your comment. The article is much improved but then I never thought that it was a bad article, I just cannot understand how such a small, local radio station is in any way notable, I disagree with the whole premise that ALL radio stations are notable, but as I said I seem to be in a minority of one. Paste (talk) 15:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand where you're coming from, Paste. I can only say what the rationale is for the policy.  When you get right down to it, few radio stations, high schools, incorporated villages, etc., would be able to win a notability debate based on significant coverage outside the local area.  By nature, almost all radio stations have to be local, since their maximum power is limited to 50,000 watts.  Most people can't name any radio stations that broadcast in, say, Los Angeles --- and in fact, in L.A., most people don't know the stations; they tune in to a format they prefer, and might be reminded that they're listening to "KISS 105".  How many listeners they have depends, in large part, on how many people live within the range of the signal, along with how many other stations are competing in the same area.  As such, Bucksnort County might have only a couple of stations, whereas Los Angeles County would have lots of stations.  However, even a small radio station or high school is a significant part of the community where it operates.  Luckily, there are relatively few things that are considered "inherently notable", and this is one of them.  Mandsford (talk) 18:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It is wrong to say that testing a deletion to see what the unwritten rules are violated WP:POINT. If we never test to see if consensus is the same as it used to be, we will never know if consensus has changed. Nominating this was fine, deleting it is wrong.--CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 22:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Which "unwritten rules" are you referring to exactly? Mandsford (talk) 01:09, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The ones regarding the notability of radio stations...--CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 19:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The WP:NME guidelines, among others, are not unwritten. - Dravecky (talk) 20:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, I predate that guideline. Still, the radio part of that basically says nothing at all. --CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 05:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's an Essay, not a guideline. It carries no weight whatsoever.--CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 05:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.