Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wael Romdhane


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. On Wikipedia, deletion discussions are determined by a rough consensus of the editors who participate in a discussion and here the clear consensus is to Delete this article. Discussion over what sources are considered reliable for establishing notability are best done at WP:RSN. Liz Read! Talk! 22:48, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Wael Romdhane

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Former footballer and now businessperson that does not seem to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC. Searches in Arabic using the name from his Instagram account ("وائل رمضان") only seem to yield sources about the Syrian actor with the same name. According to Football Database and Playmaker Stats, he never played a game and the Transfermarkt source cited only has U21 Dutch appearances. The only info I can find on him is on his own website, which is obviously not an independent source. The Nessma source cited looks like a blog and is only a basic transfer announcement, stating nothing more than the clubs involved in the transfer, that he is of Tunisian descent and that he is a left-back. Not enough to pass GNG on its own. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:00, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Sportspeople, Football, Tunisia,  and Netherlands.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:03, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately you did not do proper research. First of all his name in Arabic is differently spelled when searching for articles, his name is Wael Romdhane (which is the Tunisian-Arabic dialect version of وائل رمضان. If you translate that you'll see that his last name in Arabic means ramadan. In Tunisia the people named after that holy month for the muslims have a different version for their name, like Ben Romdhane or Romdhani. Both options give results. For the second option; Romdhani you'll find the article of Nessma Sport TV. And in case you don't know: Nessma TV is the biggest TV channel in North-Africa and the Maghreb countries, so go ahead and look for Nessma. So, for your information this is not a nonse blog but an official TV Media announcement which you would have understand if you knew about Nessma TV. This article is important, since USBG made a transition from 2018/2019, got a new owner and signed those players from abroad for a lot of money for the Tunisian competion. That's also when they started to play a more important role in the Tunisian Ligue 1. So those signings are parte of their history and transition from lower league team to serious Tunisian Ligue 1 team. Hopefully you understand it now. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 21:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Please can you link to some significant coverage of Romdhane? Fair enough that Nessma is a reliable source if it is indeed a massive TV channel but neither of the sources that you have used are acceptable as one is a transfer announcement and the other is Transfermarkt, which is unreliable per WP:TRANSFERMARKT. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:30, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 21:43, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @GiantSnowman@Spiderone Guys I respect your opinion but I think you're underestimating TransferMarkt and the link with Football these days. These days clubs use the data of transfermarkt during their initial scouting procedures. I checked your previous discussions and I feel that your information there is outdated. Transfermarkt has become a business itself now. They have data scouts which generate and validate the information. If someone comes up with a suggestion, they have to provide the sources and the data analyst will do his due-dilligence. You can search for the processes and see how it has changed in the last couple years. Also read this (https://www.transfermarkt.com/intern/datenpflegeGuide).
 * Secondly, regarding the information of Nessma TV. It is a massive and huge channel known in the whole North-African and Arab world (Pretty similar to Skysports or something like that) So they made the official announcement of his transfer and also found an interview on live tv with him on their official pages. (https://www.facebook.com/sportnessma/videos/2255444554721173/) I'm wondering if SkySports makes an official announcement of a transfer and do a live interview with news articles would you still ask? Both sources TM and Nessma are reliable sources and should just accept it and not being looking for racist excuses about an arab culture. I think it's pretty clear now. No further questions asked. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 22:25, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Transfermarkt is not a reliable source - and transfer news is not 'significant' coverage. GiantSnowman 22:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Nonse, you didn't even do your research about Transfermarkt. Your information is outdated. It doesn't work like that anymore. Transfermarkt has become a businesse with data analysts who do their due-dilligence. Unfortunately you don't want to learn and develop yourself. So sad that you're so ignorant and also belittling the Arab news since you don't seem to understand it or do proper research. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 22:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:SPORTBASIC clearly states Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. so, yes, Transfermarkt is excluded regardless of its reliability. The Nessma source is just a basic transfer announcement with no depth to build a biography from. Even if it were BBC or Sky Sports, it would still be unacceptable as it does not meet SPORTBASIC's requirement for multiple published secondary sources showing non-trivial coverage. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:44, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Do Not Delete Transfermarkt and Nessma are both reliable sources. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 22:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No Reason to deletete this article: I have done my research regarding your previous discussions about Transfermarkt not being a reliable source and it's definitely lacking. WP:TRANSFERMARKT Actually it should be part of every professional's page. How can you agree on Soccerway and WorldFootballnet and other bad sources as a decent source while the biggest source for everyone in the whole Footballindustry is by far Transfermarkt. If you guys do not have the knowledge regarding that industry or did not do your research than also should not be the one to say you think the sources are not reliable. First do you research and as I found out, your latest research regarding Transfermarkt dates from 2013! It is for sure time to update. The footballindustry has exploded in the last decade and nowadays Transfermarkt plays a big role for every scout, club and professional in the industry. Most clubs their scouting systems are depending of TM also some clubs their annual financial statements are based on the MV of transfermarkt. So be careful guys, you're way behind schedule. This article and it's sources are perfectly fine you should just understand that and stop being ignorant. Same applies for the other articles of other Tunisian players who played in their competition. If you don't know the sources that's fine I am willing to explain them for you since your Arab competition and language knowledge is not as good as mine. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 14:23, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * And, again, WP:SPORTBASIC clearly states Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. so, yes, Transfermarkt is excluded regardless of its reliability. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 15:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * And, again you didn't even do your research. Remain ignorant and a know-it-all. You still don't add any value to the knowledge of this football industry, country, competition and football club. While as an industry expert I tried to update you guys on the newest developments. Apparently your Transfermarkt research dates from 2013. What a shame. Also don't forget to remove almost every single page of a football player with soccerway or worldfootballnet. Those websites are not used by any particular scouts, football clubs or federations for their research on Football players, while Transfermarkt is. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 15:26, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hans Footballscout2023, please stop arguing. User:Spiderone is an IMPORTANT resource for Wikipedia. His attention is needed elsewhere. gidonb (talk) 15:34, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gidonb@SpideroneI am definitely not arguing. You guys just do not possess the football industry knowledge. Your discussions regarding Transfermarkt are from 2013 so you're basically a decade behind us. You accept pages of players with ironically only a soccerway or worldfootballnet as a resource but not transfermarkt which is used by the whole industry, clubs for financial and scouting purposes. Would have been better if you worked closer with transfermarkt and both had more knowledge about that.
 * Furthermore you were belittling and mocking their Arab TV News (It is the biggest in North-African and Maghreb, Arabic world) page as a blog and not reliable. While it's actually similar to SkySports and BBC which you guys as well accepted as a resource. You're definitely not neutral and already have a prejudice and also lack the knowledge regarding the industry. So just accept my help and be thankfull that you were taught stuff you did not know and that was not in your attention at all first. All the best. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 15:58, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This is off-topic and disruptive now. Have you got any significant news coverage from multiple sources, excluding sports database sites, or have you not? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 16:11, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not off-topic. You're not making use of Transfermarkt for no good reason, your still building on the same discussions that you had about Transfermarkt in 2013. But the whole use of it, it's environment and everything around it changed in a decade obviously and you're still ignorant about it. That's why I insisted of using this source. All the other significant news articles and interviews are already previously mentioned (Nessma Sport and TV Live interview) So you should just make use of that. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 16:18, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried to explain that you're just applying double standards when we're talking about Western Football Players and Non-Western Football Players and their competitions. Over here in Europe it is enough to mention SkySports,FoxSports,BBC or even Club Websites and when we are talking about Non-Western Countries all of a sudden a source similar to SkySports is not enough. Come on guys it is 2023, time to wake up now. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 16:23, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I will copy my above comment verbatim. Even if it were BBC or Sky Sports, it would still be unacceptable as it does not meet SPORTBASIC's requirement for multiple published secondary sources showing non-trivial coverage. We do not need your permission to delete articles. Unless you can come up with multiple news articles dedicating significant coverage (generally, multiple paragraphs of prose text). I note that you still have not brought in any sources other than the same 2 that we started with, one being a transfer announcement and another being a stats database. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 16:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete. This one is straightforward. At Achilles '29, he only played in U21, not on the main squad. Next, he transferred to US Ben Guerdane in the Tunisian first league and also never played in the first squad. He left after a month. gidonb (talk) 15:20, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Do not Delete. Get your facts straight. Newsarticles and interviews says he signed in May 2019. How can you say he left after a month? He was one of their new presidents signings from abroad with the Brazilian and Egyptian players as well. Also not true, he was on the bench for CAF Confederations Cup but didn't play due an injury. Still with the other players of USBG is a part of their transition in 2019 from being a Ligue 2 Tunisia club to playing in the CAF Confederations Cup. You should have done better research. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 15:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * OK, so you lasted 3 months in Tunisia. Either way, you do not meet the threshold of notability. gidonb (talk)


 * @Gidonb who's 'you' mate? We're talking about this guy from US Ben Guerdane like the other players I wrote the articles for. I did proper research and found a lot information. I am am not related to this subject. So don't you dare to make those accusations. And what's the threshold of notability? Both sources cover the story perfectly. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 18:02, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not an accusation. It's my conclusion based on creating this article on Nlwiki and arguing under your own name there, adding info. Nlwiki, not known for quality, to say the least, also deleted this. gidonb (talk) 18:17, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is clear proof of what Gidonb is saying. The person that created the Nlwiki article was called 'WaelRomdhane-Info' then decided to change their username after attention was drawn to the fact that they were self-promoting. They then argued about it here under a different name. Self-promotion is quite often the only likely reason for someone vehemently defending an article which can never be expanded beyond a 2-sentence stub and that clearly fails WP:SPORTBASIC by a country mile. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That is not clear proof at all mate. That could be anyone using the username based on that person trying to frame it. I don't understand what they were arguing about since it is not in English. Also the sources that I used for this article now were based on the news articles regarding US Ben Guerdane as a club since I have been following them closely the last couple years so I decided that I wanted to make the articles to complete their history. It's weird that apparently someone tried to use his full name as a username and argue about it. I am from Sweden and my name is Hansson, I am specialized in the scouting of players in Western but also in Arabic countries and watched their competitions closely. For that reason this is a subject that a have much knowledge about. However I feel offended that you're trying to frame me for someone who previously tried to make an article and argued about that. I don't even understand Dutch so I find it all pretty interesting. Hope the next time you try to get your facts right before you're making such random accusations. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 19:29, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spiderone the only reason for defending the article is actually that I found a lot of other articles with the worst sources ever like, Soccerway and Worldfootballnet. In comparison with those Transfermarkt is the best thing that ever happened for the football industry. I hope you guys did your research in the meantime and got a better understanding of TM in this industry. Furthermore Nessma was a good addition since you guys allowed SkySports and BBC as a source. So for me the only reason for sticking to this stub is that it is important for the history of Tunisian and arab football that we get more knowledge available about their players and history. In my opinion it seems that it would be nice to have a small overview of all the players. I started with those players from US Ben Guerdane because I watched that team closely since their transition in 2018/2019 and did some scouting as well. Hope you all have a better understanding now about it, because for me I would defend all the articles from all the players like that. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 19:45, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry but I don't buy into any of that. Subsequent edits were made by a Hans. This is your consistent alter ego. Another username you used at Nlwiki was PietjePreciesDerks, who argues in the same style as you do here. gidonb (talk) 20:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a very rude and attacking approach of you. Let me tell you something son, that does not scare me. You can write down all the BS stories and try to be funny but I have no idea what you're talking about. As I said I wanted to contribute by bringing Transfermarkt to the attention since you all have been sleeping on it since 2013. After a decade you have still no idea what the importance is in the Football Industry. I think I made my point clear. Aside from that I don't know all those names you're mentioning, I don't even understand Dutch lol. And for the record I'm not arguing in a particular style I'm trying to give you guys a wake up call that your approach of working is outdated and you're just a group of friends agreeing on everything together. That's why Wikipedia will never be taken seriously. I'm very sorry for the people who are working day and night to make it a better place and I feel sad for them that because of you it will never be achieved. Next time make sure you check the IP-address to locate it. Then you would have known that I'm from Stockholm. Anyway, all the best and hopefully this will open up your closeminded thoughts... Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 21:33, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Everyone needs to remember WP:CIVIL, and accusations of socking should be taken to WP:SPI. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:50, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The concern was WP:COI. gidonb (talk) 00:29, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That was not the concern at all. The concern from beginning till now is that you guys are avoiding all the discussions about Transfermarkt. You still carry on with that outdated information about TM and you're running a decade behind. All the developments in the football industry made Transfermarkt a major source these days and you can't deny that. I felt that I had to bring this up now. Aside from that I don't care about what you @Gidonb say. Even WP know your accusations are false and dangerous. So be carefull with that next time mate. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 11:04, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Seriously 2013? That was the last time you did research regarding transfermarkt... Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 11:05, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It's all incorrect. We have agreed that Transfermarkt hasn't changed. More importantly for your case, and please let it sink this time, we have pointed out to you time and again that even if we thought Transfermarkt was a wonderful source of data (we do not!), you would still be not notable. This is because Transfermarkt is a database and for the General Notability Guideline you would need significant coverage. That's not something that is to be found even in great databases. In other words, your entire argumentation (using the word loosely) is pointless. gidonb (talk) 13:25, 2 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. He is definitely non-notable as a footballer, and does not seem notable in any other terms. Angelo (talk) 16:29, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Request. Can we speedy close this so we all can concentrate on topics that have some connection with notability? gidonb (talk) 17:33, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Request Denied@ Can we just not do that. You're just a group of friends trying to keep everything the same as a decade ago. The same discussion about Transfermarkt in 2013 is being used as for the reason why you don't accept this source. However in the meantime everything about it changed and the whole football industry, clubs and scouts are using this for scouting and also for the annual financial statements for determining the MV. Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 19:35, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. Alvaldi (talk) 19:19, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Will not be deleted. If you refuse to acknowledge the development and importance of Transfermarkt in the Football Industry, the usage and its reliability then only one thing is certain. You never want to develop yourself and your knowledge. Last updates and information from you about this subject dates from 2013! We're in 2023 Wake up! Hans Footballscout2023 (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * .Delete I can't find anything to show notability. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 20:37, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per lack of SIGCOV demonstrating GNG. As SpiderOne and others have said, Transfermarkt, Soccerway, Worldfootballnet, etc. are all unusable for the purposes of establishing notability, so it is 100% irrelevant whether Transfermarkt is RS. JoelleJay (talk) 01:59, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:GNG, lacks SIGCOV, and per nom, WP:SPORTBASIC as well. Tails   Wx  13:50, 2 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.