Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Walsingham Public School


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge. PhilKnight (talk) 12:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Walsingham Public School

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested proposed deletion. No reliable sources cited to establish notability of this defunct elementary school. Beeblbrox (talk) 06:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep and expand If people have more information in print or newspaper form, they should be free to source it to the school. People should also expand the article by using the references in print or newspaper form. GVnayR (talk) 15:45, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's funny actually, I tagged this back in February as not having any information on notability, and you removed that tag without adding any such material. Now you are saying, if I understand correctly, that there must be some references establishing notability if only the right editor to find them would come along. As the creator of this article and a whole other raft of articles about defunct schools in Norfolk County, I would have thought you would be the one who could find such sources. Beeblbrox (talk) 19:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What I meant to say is that people can look up old references in newspaper and printed material as well as look up information on other search engines (Yahoo, Dogpile, Alexa, Metacrawler are some good examples). Don't just use Google all the time because there's great stuff on other search engines. While I have created most of the Norfolk County defunct school articles myself, other Wikipedians with knowledge of the local should join in, find information, and cite it to printed references related to local history. It doesn't have to be a book; an article in the Simcoe Reformer will suffice. GVnayR (talk) 03:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So, I assume you have searched all these great resources you speak of, did you come up with any non-trivial coverage in reliable sources? Beeblbrox (talk) 03:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Elementary schools are not regarded as worth a stand alone article. This has been long standing consensus - there is a current notability proposal which deals with this: Notability (schools). People have usually referred to WP:NOTDIRECTORY as the nearest policy on this - that Wikipedia is not a directory of the local infrastructure. Tempting though it is to record every school in a region, the individual elements (each school) that make up that body of information is by wide and long-standing consensus considered not to be worth detailing in a stand alone article. The essay Places of local interest is highly respected and provides excellent advice on how to deal with places of local interest, such as schools. Essentially, schools should be dealt with in the parent article on the local area. I have looked through Category:Elementary schools in Norfolk County, Ontario, and while most of the schools in that cat are simple single sentences, one or two have a body of information that is worth keeping - I particularly liked Nixon Public School (even if a lot of the information needs to be cut - while it's amusing to read that "In the winter time, students used to make snow forts, sing Christmas carols, and go tobogganing on the hills of snow that would develop on the school yard." that is not unique to that school - children play with the snow and sing carols in many schools!). My proposal is that Walsingham Public School and all the schools contained in Category:Elementary schools in Norfolk County, Ontario are redirected and merged into Grand Erie District School Board, which according to Norfolk_County%2C_Ontario is the local school authority. The result of this is that:
 * 1) all the information would be retained without any further AfD fights (and all the schools within Category:Elementary schools in Norfolk County, Ontario are open to AfD nominations which they would almost certainly lose);
 * 2) all the information would be placed in the appropriate context for comparative study;
 * 3) the parent article is not open for AfD nomination as it a regional school authority - such authorities are generally considered by consensus to be worth keeping, though it needs some reliable sources;
 * 4) and when all the schools are gathered in one place they are viewed more often and more people will then add information - so all the schools benefit.
 * At the same time, Norfolk_County%2C_Ontario should be rewritten to give an overview of the education system in Norfolk County, rather than merely a list of schools, and a link provided to [Grand Erie District School Board]] so that readers who wish to go deeper into the education in that area can find information on each school. By redirecting, a search for Walsingham Public School will take the reader direct to that school's information within the parent article. Nothing is lost and everything is gained. I would be quite willing to do the work needed.  SilkTork  *YES! 07:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds good to me, go for it. Beeblbrox (talk) 19:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking about this for a few days. Now I agree it would be better if the defunct Norfolk County school articles were consolidated into the parent article for comparison. However, the information from all of the defunct school articles should be merged into the Grand Erie District School Board article verbatim and the parent article should then be semi-protected. As for right now, I officially change my vote to redirect and merge. GVnayR (talk) 02:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * comment I hate to start trouble when we seem so close to consensus here, but don't you think it's a little extreme to insist that every word be copied verbatim and protected? You may want to re-familiarize yourself with WP:OWN. As pointed out above, there are a lot of crufty details and original research in some of these articles. Beeblbrox (talk) 03:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * response to comment You're right, Beeblbrox. Maybe we should forget about protecting the parent article and think about omitting the following statement from Nixon Public School's part in this new enlarged parent article: "In the winter time, students used to make snow forts, sing Christmas carols, and go tobogganing on the hills of snow that would develop on the school yard." when we merge all the defunct Norfolk Public School information into the parent article. Otherwise, I still believe that every other word and sentence of information should copied verbatim. And don't put and AfD message on every elementary school article in Norfolk County. Add a merge message instead and people will get the point much more clearly. GVnayR (talk) 04:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:School clearly outlines community consensus that elementary schools aren't notable barring exceptional circumstances. There are none here.  There are times when we should WP:Ignore all rules; this isn't one of them.  Vickser (talk) 23:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Listen to me for a second, Vickser. We don't need to delete all these Norfolk County elemtary school articles. I propose that we merge all the information about these schools (active and defunct) into the parent article (Grand Erie District School Board) instead. GVnayR (talk) 03:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a reasonable point. I don't have any objections to a Merge and Redirect and it has the added benefit of making people less likely to recreate solo articles.  Vickser (talk) 01:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete - Fails WP:N. LonelyBeacon (talk) 00:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  19:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  19:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge to Grand Erie District School Board per WP:SCH; until sufficient reliable sources can demonstrate notability in its own right -- Ratarsed (talk) 19:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge/redirect as standard practice. No notability demonstrated. CRGreathouse (t | c) 16:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * comment It seems clear a consensus towards merging and redirecting has emerged here, and I would advise GVnayR that consensus will also probably be strongly against the proposal that every word of all these defunct school articles be kept. If that was the case, why merge and redirect at all? The point is that individual out-of-operation elementary schools are not inherently notable and details like "Near the start of every school year, all students attended the Langton Fair to get away from school work and to get ready for the Norfolk County Fair and Horse Show in October[1]." are appropriate for the school's homepage perhaps, but not an encyclopedic entry. Beeblbrox (talk) 16:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge/redirect to Grand Erie District School Board to where I have merged the key content. This merge seems compatible with the above comments. I agree that many other elementary schools need to be merged in likewise, but we have to start somewhere. TerriersFan (talk) 16:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.