Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 02:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre

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Non-notable festival. Rwiggum (Talk /Contrib ) 02:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, long-running but little indicates more than a local interest. Punkmorten (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep, it's a hugely important theatre festival, with considerable interest all over London and big coverage in magazines such as Time Out. To be honest, I really think that non-Brits who are unfamiliar with amdram in the UK really should not vote to delete this one. How would you like it if I decided on the notability or not of some cultural event in Norway or the USA? It's been running for a long time, its patron is Sir Derek Jacobi for goodness' sake. To be honest, most people know it as the Waltham Forest Drama Festival, or as the Waltham Forest Festival, so I would also recommend creating forwarding pages for these two as well. Tris2000 (talk) 11:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter where we're from. If the festival is as notable as you say it is, then there should be no problem providing souces to back that u p. However, a google search] for the phrase "Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre" only produces 59 results, which doesn't suggest that it's as hugely important as you say. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 12:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said though, not many people know it as "Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre". In fact, I wasn't even aware that that was the new name for it. As well as "Waltham Forest Drama Festival" (a further 43 ghits), MOST people just call it "Waltham Forest Festival" (and drop the "of Theatre" bit, even though referring to the theatre festival) which has 224 ghits. Glastonbury's official title is "Glastonbury Festival of Contemporary Performing Arts" yet that gets 9570 as opposed to over a million ghits for "Glastonbury Festival", and that is in spite of the fact that an even bigger majority will call it just "Glastonbury" - a huge chunk of the 8.6 million hits that that word gets. But the official title gets just 9570 hits. Just because the official title doesn't get many hits means nothing. 267 ghits for either "Waltham Forest Festival" or "Waltham Forest Drama Festival" is not insubstantial and Wiki pages have been created for far less important festivals, especially considering the cultural importance of this festival and its esteemed patronage. I mean, what is it you've got against this charming cultural festival in the East End of London, anyway? Incidentally, you get 559 ghits if you search for pages that include both the terms |"festival of theatre" and "waltham", so I rest my case. Tris2000 (talk) 13:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.   -- raven1977 (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete lack of non-trivial independent sources. Guy (Help!) 14:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep for the following reasons:

1. The article was incorrectly tagged for deletion on the basis that the Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is a club. The following message was written: "A tag has been placed on Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a club". The Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is not a club. It is an open entry Festival. Entry is open to all. Anyone can take part in this Festival, it is not exclusive, it is not a club, it is a well-known, inclusive, open event that anyone, no matter who they are or where they are from, can either take part in or, if they wish, spectate. The whole mission and raison d'être of the Festival is the inclusivity and accessibility of drama and theatre at the Festival.

2. It has been mentioned that the Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is not notable because there is a lack of independent sources quoted. I apologise that the Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre does not have a very long online Internet history, but it does have a long and important history spanning nearly 28 years. It has to be remembered that Theatre in the UK has been very late in adopting the Internet both as an information source and as a historical archive. I carried out a search on the database of The Guardian Newspaper Series and found independent stories and reviews relating to the Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre and its pre-2006 title of Waltham Forest Drama Festival dating back to 2004, but my understanding is their online Internet database does not go back long enough to read the Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre's entire 27 year history, anyone wishing to look into the Festival's early history would have to consult the volumes of the relevant Newspapers that have been archived and are available for inspection and study in the British Library []. Non-trivial independent sources do exist and are available but finding them on the Internet is a bit harder. I believe a research study at the University of East London is in the process of attempting to gather together a definitive database of the history of theatre in London, but given the hand to mouth history of theatre in the United Kingdom this task has its pitfalls. I agree that the article on the Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre does have some scope for improvement at this early stage, but the nature of Wikipedia will allow it in time to become the definitive, reliable article that reflects the strength and history of this Festival of Theatre in London.

3. The Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is a notable Festival. Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is clearly referenced in the Wikipedia article on the All England Theatre Festival (AEFT) 1. It is also referenced in the article on the National Drama Festivals Association (NDFA) 2, albeit originally under its pre-2006 name of Waltham Forest Drama Festival. Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is the new name for the Waltham Forest Drama Festival which was 27 years old this year and soon to enter its 28th year. Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre is the largest amateur theatre festival in Greater London and the only amateur theatre festival in East London. It is a well known event in East London and attracts participants from across the highly populated boroughs of East London and as well as the the Counties of Essex and Hertfordshire.

I propose that the article on Waltham Forest Festival of Theatre be kept for the above 3 reasons. -- unsigned
 * Keep -- This is clearly a significant drama festival. I have just wikified it.  No doubt some one will add the refefncees listed in the previous (unsigned) contribution to the article.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:35, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.