Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Walton Stowell


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Shereth 14:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Walton Stowell

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

No evidence of notability, fails WP:BIO and no major architect work. ApprenticeFan talk  contribs 11:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete, IMHO this makes no claim of notability.--CastAStone//₵₳$↑₳₴₮ʘ№€ 12:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Article appears to be a WP:COI, created by User:Walton Stowell. Sparse news results for the name, does not appear notable. --Odie5533 (talk) 12:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not the place to post your resume. Edward321 (talk) 13:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 23:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Notability is subjective. Walton Stowell Sr. was a famous regional architect, politician, and National and Statewide Historic Preservationist. If you examine his creditials, and follow the links, and read about him in books and publications (newspapers, journals, reports) then it is clear that he deserves a Wiki article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drogo Empedocles (talk • contribs) 17:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC) — Drogo Empedocles (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * It's not subjective. WP:BIO. What does he meet? Where are the multiple examples of primary mentions in reliable third party sources? --Smashvilletalk  19:56, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The "multiple examples of primary mentions in reliable third party sources" are provided in the article, and continue to be added. My father was mayor of a very famous Town called Harpers Ferry, and has contributed more to the fields of architecture, history, design, art, politics, and society than many other people who have Wiki articles. Constructive criticism is fine, and I have more than enough sources to verify any specific questions. I find that most of the reasons for deletion of articles are unverifiable, as people have not even bothered to check the links I have provided, and have made up their mind that because they have not heard of him, he is not as worthy as Paris Hilton (irony). Also someone deleted all the additional references I had provided on this page. I am having alot of trouble understanding Wiki rules, so im learning as i go i guess. Maybe its time to try another site for posting general public information about my father and other articles on subjects i have knowledge of. Walton (talk) 00:27, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

hangon

The Wiki language is difficult for me, as I try to match the format, and the rules for "notability" are very subjective to me. I see other politicians and people on Wiki of much less notability than my father, yet "notability" is the main reason my article is being attacked. I understand constructive criticism that would tell me to remove parts of it, and edit it better, however it looks like there is too much blatant rejection without constructive help for articles that may be very worthy for Wiki. Most of the information provided in this article ANYONE can find by watching video interviews of my father on YOUTUBE from local news channels. My father was, and is notable. Most of the articles, meetings, and projects that he worked on are not available because our region is rural and many of his credentials are not online. Therefore primary sources must be listed in general terms, as interviews of everyone and every project he worked on have not been conducted yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walton Stowell (talk • contribs) 00:53, July 11, 2009


 * Weak keep. According to his obit, He earned a reputation locally and statewide, even nationally, for his architectural designs and knowledge of historic preservation, and there's other press coverage from both his time as mayor and his work as an architect (although at least one of those does look like an advert).  Article needs an awful lot of work to take out the autobio and commercial, and this !vote would be stronger if there was more evidence of the national reputation, but I'm not convinced it's not salvageable.  If it is deleted, I'd recommend Walton take it to the userspace, work (possibly with others) to bash it into better, and better referenced shape to make more of that national reputation.  Walton, we don't need credentials to be online (although a lot of wikipeadians can fall victim to google-itis), so long as a reference exists, say a book or newspapers that's in a library, that means it can be verified and used --Saalstin (talk) 01:46, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.--Sandor Clegane (talk) 03:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - FORMATTING PLEASE - Don't list accomplishments here. Put them in the article. Then say "i put a load of sources in the article and this guy's notable for X Y Z" in short sentence form. This dump here does little to convince regular AfD contributors the subject's notable. Please, make this easy for people to analyze. Shadowjams (talk) 06:34, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Note: Users User talk:Burgessdr, User talk:Walton Stowell, User talk:Drogo Empedocles, and an anon IP appear to be a single purpose editors focusing only on this article.

Note: I have made a note in defense of the "Walton Stowell" article. This is my first time using Wikipedia, so I do not understand everything. Walton (Kip's son) has asked members of the town to write in on behalf of the article. Do not be suprised if more people make accounts on Wikipedia for this purpose. I know that Don Burgess is an Odd Fellow, and has also written on behalf of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drogo Empedocles (talk • contribs) 02:48, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The following is from a single purpose account with this being the first and only edits:


 * Comment - Please do not be a regular contributor to AfD if you do not read the article nor supporting information. Please do not assess notability about a particular person if you have no knowledge of the subject matter.  -

ApprenticeFan comment: No Major Architect Work. FACT: Kip Stowell designed visitor centers at National Parks for nearly 30 years.

ApprenticeFan comment: Fails Wiki BIO notability criteria. FACT:</B> Kip Stowell was nationally recognized for his design work in National Parks and for his regional knowledge and contributions to historic preservation in West Virginia.

<LI><B>ApprenticeFan comment:</B> No Evidence of Notability. <B>FACT:</B> excerpt from Jefferson County (West Virginia) Commission resolution February 26, 2009: <EM>Kip served as a member on the Jefferson County Historic Landmarks Commission, the West Virginia Preservation Alliance, Jefferson County African-American Community Association, the West Virginia Archives and History Commission and was the West Virginia adviser for the National Trust for Historic Preservation</EM>

<LI><B>CastAStone comment:</B> recommends Speedy Delete. <B>FACT:</B> Criteria for Wiki Speedy Delete is for cases where submitted article can be categorized as Vandalism or Patent Nonsense or similar. One might argue that Kip Stowell was not sufficiently notable (which he was), but to make a recommendation for Speedy Delete, itself is Patent Nonsense.

<LI><B>CastAStone comment:</B> No Claim of Notability. <B>FACT:</B> The article "claimed" that Kip Stowell contributed to architecture and historic preservation on a regional and national level for half a century. Most reasonable people would think that is a rather enormous Claim of Notability. To say there is no claim of notability is patent nonsense. This suggests that the AfD contributor did not even read the article at all, let alone the supporting information. <LI><B>Odie5533 comment:</B> Conflict of Interest. <B>FACT:</B> This article was submitted by Walton Stowell Jr about his father Walton "Kip" Stowell. Walton Jr does not hide this fact. Very likely that this article should be resubmitted by someone other than Walton Jr. However, it is hard to see how recognizing Kip's many and undeniable accomplishments is "self-promotion" (he is deceased) or "commercial" (he was retired from active work for over 10 years at the time of his death, plus he was a public servant - worked for the National Park Service and thus, was not a commerical architect).

<LI><B>Odie5533 comment:</B> Sparse news results for name. <B>FACT:</B> Earth Day. April 22, 1998. President Clinton: <EM>Mayor Stowell, thank you for a lifetime of dedication to America's National Park system.</EM>

<LI><B>Odie5533 comment:</B> Does not appear to be notable. <B>FACT:</B> Kip Stowell was nationally recognized for his design work in National Parks and for his regional knowledge and contributions to historic preservation in West Virginia. Kip Stowell contributed to architecture and historic preservation on a regional and national level for half a century. <EM>If this is not notable, I do not know what is</EM>

<LI><B>Edward321 comment:</B> Wikipedia is not the place to post your resume. <B>FACT:</B> Walton "Kip" Stowell is deceased and thus cannot have resume. This article is a summary of Kip's regional and national notability in the area of architectural design and historic preservation.

<LI><B>Smashville comment:</B> Does not meet Wiki BIO notability criteria <B>FACT:</B> Kip Stowell was nationally recognized for his design work in National Parks and for his regional knowledge and contributions to historic preservation in West Virginia.

<LI><B>Saalstin comment:</B> Needs more evidence of national reputation. <B>FACT:</B> Earth Day. April 22, 1998. President Clinton: <EM>Mayor Stowell, thank you for a lifetime of dedication to America's National Park system.</EM> Designed vistiors centers at National Parks for Three Decades. WV Advisor to the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Worked as a public (Federal Government) servant in the area of architectural design and historic preservation for Five Decades.

<LI><B>Sandor Clegane comment:</B> Delete per nom. <B>FACT:</B> See above many reasons why article should not be deleted.


 * Delete and userfy - I don't believe the editor pushing the article has any sense of the norms, or even basic formatting necessary to salvage this article, at the moment. There do seem to be some references to the individual, but there aren't any in the article right now. A local obit is certainly not enough for notability. Shadowjams (talk) 20:55, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Shadowjams thank you for trying to help, unfortunately you have removed all the links to verify notability except for the obit. He only passed away in January. However, it is good you understanding Wikipedia well enough to make changes that I cannot do such as link formatting. If you could please add back some of the links to his published works with the Department of Interior back, in Wiki language, that would be even better. I worked closely to my father, and this is a personal article for me. I did not know what would happen when I tried to post this... and now I know. At least I tried, perhaps someday Wiki will be ready for him. Walton (talk) 02:58, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The links I removed were things like a link to the Library of Congress's main site. It didn't really count as a reference. Shadowjams (talk) 03:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You removed more than that one, you removed the specific links to his drawings in the Library of Congress, under HABS / HAER. Although I admit I could use help with this editing format. I do not intend to spend time writing many articles, this one may be the only one. If I get help, ok. If it gets deleted, at least I tried with the free time I have. Perhaps someone else will eventually write a page about him, if they get around to it. Any article written about him, should at least have the basics of this article (imo). Walton (talk) 03:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Don Burgess thank you for writing in defense of this article. I believe all should refer to his notes (see facts above in support). Don Burgess knew my father, and we are members of the Odd Fellows Lodge in Harpers Ferry, WV. Walton (talk) 03:08, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have started an article "Walton Danforth Stowell". Regarding Conflict of Interest, I am not related to the Stowells (although I am a Jr just like Walton Jr), I have no business relationship with the Stowells, I have no long standing personal relationship with the Stowells (I have only known them for maybe 3 years), I am not direct neighbors of them (they live in Harpers Ferry, I live in Bolivar - although their house is only about 5 blocks away), I am not close personal friends with the family, I do not regularly socialize with the Stowells (although they are very socialable) except for general interactions with Ferrians and Bolivarites, I do belong to the Odd Fellows Lodge in Harpers Ferry as did Kip and does Walton, but so do other people, I have no vested professional interest in Kip or Walton's architectural or historic preservation activities (which are hobbies of mine and cost me more $$$ than I derive from them - which is ZERO).  I have included dozen of sources pertaining to Kip's contribution and notability in the areas of architecture and historic preservation.  If those are not enough, I can add dozens more.  Its shooting ducks in a barrel.  To quote President Bill Clinton: Mayor Stowell, thank you for a lifetime of dedication to America's National Park system.  (I realize Clinton also thanked ALL NPS employees on Earth Day 1998, but Mayor Stowell was the one on the stage sitting next to Al Gore.  The point here is that Kip was sitting there BECAUSE he was notable, and was notable whether Clinton knew that or not, and in fact was notable decades before Wiki even existed).  Burgessdr (talk) 20:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak delete. Like with the many entries for academics, this smells of scraping by. A long list of laudable but non-notable achievements does not somehow sum up to be notable. There's some completely irrelevant stuff thrown in too, as if that will somehow put him over the top (who cares where he went to summer school?) I don't see much more than local notability, which is never enough. Hairhorn (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.