Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wayne (criminal psychopath)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 01:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Wayne (criminal psychopath)

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Suspected hoax, I question the notability, the sourcing is at best problematic, and it is an entirely negative article about a living person. This really needs to go. Courcelles (talk) 23:33, 21 July 2010 (UTC) The subject was featured on two television programmes in the UK, which I have on VHS. The first was on Channel 4 as part of the Equinox series in 2000. I found a transcript of the episode at Dr. Hare's website and used it, along with the network and air date, as a cite. The following year, he appeared, albeit more sparingly, on a BBC documentary about psychopathy: I can't source a transcript, and writing it out myself would likely be considered OR, so I simply provided the network and air date.
 * Delete. This article doesn't make sense. If the subject is a convicted felon, his full name should be a matter of public record, whereas this article treats his surname as a secret. (If someone served years in prison for child molestation, how much more damage could his reputation suffer for getting a perfect score on a psychopathy test? And how could his identity be kept secret if we have a picture of him in the article?) --Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. As above, the article makes no sense.  Undoubtedly there would have been some media releases including his full name, given that he was a repeat offender.  It seems fantastically unlikely that four separate incidents of pedophilia would net a convicted murderer only 5 to 10 years, and that not even in a federal prison.  Continually breaking conditional releases from prison (or doing so even once) would also drastically reduce the likelihood of you getting a conditional release.  Taking this and and the references (those I can investigate don't really work as references) together, this article is obviously a hoax.  I have absolutely no idea who that picture is of, but it should probably be deleted too.  --Falcon Darkstar Momot (talk) 07:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, almost certainly a hoax, in any event major WP:V issues. Nsk92 (talk) 14:09, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as unverifiable. This is a hoax or an unsourced negative BLP. Either way, it has to go. • Gene93k (talk) 15:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment:

The picture of Wayne was a police mugshot from 1989 as it appeared on Equinox. The information on his background and crimes was gathered from both documentaries. In the New Zealand Herald cite, Dr. Hare states that the number of 40/40 psychopaths is very rare. As of 2001, Wayne was the only "prototypical" psychopath to appear on television, mainly because he was so articulate and "normal", which gave a real insight into how charming psychopaths can be. His surname was not provided on either documentary, and I can't source any articles on him, perhaps because "Wayne" could have been a fake name for the purpose of the documentary. But the man indeed exists and talks candidly about his crimes: he most certainly wasn't an actor. His unmistakably meth-addled face underscores his possession charges.

Falcon Darkstar Momot: "It seems fantastically unlikely that four separate incidents of pedophilia would net a convicted murderer only 5 to 10 years, and that not even in a federal prison. Continually breaking conditional releases from prison (or doing so even once) would also drastically reduce the likelihood of you getting a conditional release." The sentence was 5 to 20 years, rather than 5 to 10. He carried out the murder of his brother and the majority of his crimes as a juvenile. The BBC documentary didn't actually state whether he was convicted of crystal meth possession, but, that as an adult, he was charged.

I'm not pushing for the article to be kept, I'm simply pointing out that it wasn't a hoax. I felt that the subject was notable for achieving such a rare score and appearing on television. LunaChangue (talk) 11:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC) I thought this was relevant, my comment on the DYK and subsequent one to investigate:
 * Comment:
 * Symbol question.svg I don't understand why the transcript varies between calling him "Wayne", "Prisoner", "Man in glasses". Although I see through a youtube video that he seems to have said all this, I find it bizarre that it was uploaded a few days ago. Also, when was the last time you saw a mughsot that allowed the criminal to wear sunglasses? How come he has a seemingly recent mugshot, isn't that usually upon the arrest? And the equinox website here, doesn't seem to list an episode named The psychopathic mind, and there doesnt seem to be any airdate for an episode listed in the one in the ref's.. There is one which features Blare (I meant Hare here) on a diff date under a diff name, which I imagine was the intention. In the video, it lists Vermont State Penitentiary, which is fine if they dont want to specify exactly which prison he's in, in Vermont, but a google search gives 6 results only, as if no one has ever called it that in the past before for any reason... one is related to wiki-Wayne and the other youtube-Wayne. I know AGF policy, but no where in either accessible or watchable ref's does it say his claim to fame, having a 40/40 on that test, so I assume it must be on the BBC video. All in all, ref 1 has nothing to do with Wayne, ref 2 is the transcript and it only mentions the name Wayne in particular once or twice for quotes. Yet, ref 3 is to an episode that isn't listed on the TV shows website, and is a non-aired date, again I may have found a link and although it mentions Dr. Hare, it does not mention anything about Wayne in it. - Theornamentalist (talk) 13:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC) PS, I apologize if this is a legitimate article but poorly ref'd.
 * After re-reading Hare's transcript, I see that he does mention that Wayne got a 40 on the examination, and I apologize for saying it didn't. At this point, I do not think it is a question of a hoax, but rather notability. Luna, may I ask if that was you who posted the video on youtube? I would find it a little bizarre if it weren't. And on a side note, I found the video to be almost not believable (and I apologize if that's not the case), between the sirens every 30 seconds, and the fact that he was walking around freely in the snow, and the music made me feel all symathetic towards him, as we walked into the horizon, ha. Either way, I don't want to dissuade a new editor from continuing to edit. Can you find anything else about him? - Theornamentalist (talk) 21:29, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I am with Theornamentalist on this one. Even if this is not a hoax, there are still major WP:V problems, not to mention notability issues. Without the video available (for free or for purchase) from the show's website or from the BBC, there is no way to verify the authenticity of the video posted on Youtube or to find out where exactly it came from. I also find a number of aspects to this story almost impossible to believe. In particular, nobody gets to have their mugshot taken while wearing sunglasses. Now the article's creator says that it is not even certain if Wayne is the subject's name at all, and the first name was the only available identifier of any kind here. Even under the most lenient view of the sources, there is not enough information available to properly identify the subject. Nsk92 (talk) 08:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. I did upload the video; after reading Hare's Without Conscience, I have a renewed interest in the subject. Although Youtube can't be used as a ref, I thought it would serve as an unofficial ref. As for the sounds, I put those in myself for comedy effect. And there's barbed wire around the top of the high fence as he walks around the exercise yard (it was filmed in January 2000, which explains the snow). Whether or not Wayne is notable for Wikipedia, he's still quite interesting, therefore I upped a video. I don't know what the deal is with the mugshot, but that's how it was presented in the documentary. I must confess that the BBC documentary's date was an approximation, but it doesn't really matter now anyway. I'd upload it to Youtube right now, but it'd be pointless as it can't be used for support, nor could a transcript written by myself. And Wayne is featured in it for all of about 45 seconds as a "north eastern" criminal. I'm beginning to think that Wayne isn't his name at all, which would make sense. I do not personally know "Wayne", nor am I on a crusade to make the guy famous... he simply seemed notable for his score and tv appearances. I thought it would be interesting for those with an interest in psychology. LunaChangue (talk) 07:13, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - It is admittedly an interesting subject, although I would say a lack of references, with the only viable one being the transcript from Hare's website, that some content should be merged with Hare Psychopathy Checklist, possibly under a notable evaluations section or something. - Theornamentalist (talk) 14:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.