Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Werner Raffetseder (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Ironholds (talk) 13:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Werner Raffetseder
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Previous AFD only involved WP:SPA accounts, possibly WP:SOCK or WP:MEAT. Starting a new AFD for a fresh discussion from previously uninvolved users. -- Cirt (talk) 21:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I still say delete until someone provides evidence for this guy's notability (not just existence). I'm looking for some kind of report in more-than-regional media, in which Raffetseder is not just giving an interview, but is being described as a notable photographer, artist, "world traveler", whatever. You know, something like this on Stefano Pilati. --bender235 (talk) 22:09, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete in agreement with Bender's arguments here and on the previous AfD. It seems like this article is a patchwork combining a resume and some radio interviews. Drmies (talk) 22:17, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Werner Raffetseder has just survived AfD in the last 48 hours. Is it really necessary to renominate for AfD so soon. I am nobody's meat puppet and I still vote keep.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 12:22, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * However, you still delivered no reason why this article is notable. "Multimedia talent. Excellent photographs. Cute camel" is no valid argument. If Raffetseder is notable, where is the more-than-regional media coverage? --bender235 (talk) 12:41, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Clearly I need to repeat myself. He is a multimedia talent who has been published numerous times, has appeared on television a number of times, he has won an award, he has setup an organisation to promote what he is most interested in, he even organised a Concorde flight so that an eclipse could be observed for a longer period of time. How much notability do you need? You clearly have a problem with Werner Raffetseder. Your nomination is hostile.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 12:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with Raffetseder. I have a problem with unimportant persons adding self-promotion to Wikipedia. To your arguments: organizing a Concorde flight does not merit notability, appearing on television does not merit notability, publishing books does not merit notability. Winning an award may merit notability, depending on the significance of the award. But in my opinion, it still takes more than that. I may repeat: if Raffetseder is notable, where is the more-than-regional media coverage? --bender235 (talk) 14:06, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ORF_(broadcaster) is hardly a regional broadcaster. Raffetseder has appeared on more than one television and radio broadcast.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 15:59, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * How about something we can actually verify, e.g. a written source (newspaper article, etc.)? --bender235 (talk) 17:56, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Have added this reference to the article: http://www.faz.net/s/RubF3CE08B362D244869BE7984590CB6AC1/Doc~E9D5370806F4C40E292567042066AFA05~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 18:23, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Hi. Promised at 15:39, 4 March 2011, to find out some mention about Raffetseder in notable German language papers, NOT written BY the discussed multimedia artist but written by others ABOUT him and his published works. There is a lot of evidence of R’s notability to be found in libraries. Here are only a few (translated) examples arranged in chronological order, that may also be scanned and uploaded to Wiki or emailed to any you, if needed in German original:

26 March 1995, Martin Himmelbauer in Kurier “Awarded: Photographic Report about Life in Rubbish. Guest of the Rubbish People. -- Eight Months An Austrian Spent With the Poorest of the Poor: About 30.000 Who Live on A Giant Rubbish Mountain on the Fringes of Manila.” (1 page, text and 2 pics).

07 May 1995: Theodor Scheffl in Wiener Zeitung “Life in Rubbish: About A Photographic Project of Werner Raffetseder” (1 page, text and 5 pics)

31 March 1996: Trude Sagmeister in Kronenzeitung „I lived with the Rubbish People. -- Babies Play with Rubbish, Old People Die in It, Men Collect It And Women Cook Dead Dogs. The World of the Rubbish People of Manila Is A Foul-Smelling Cesspool. Werner Raffetseder Has Put on Record the Unimaginable.” (2 pages, text and 5 pics).

02 August 1999: Unidentified author in News 31/1999 (Austrian weekly, see German Wiki) “Record of A Total Solar Eclipse. -- How the Viennese Book Author Werner Raffetseder Experienced A Total Solar Eclipse on the Island of Aruba.” (1 page, text and 4 pics)

02 August 1999: Unidentified author in Germany’s BILD “I Have Experienced the Latest Eclipse. – This Is How the Scientific Writer Werner Raffetseder Experienced the Latest Total Solar Eclipse” (nearly one page, text and 2 pics)

08 August 1999: Trude Sagmeister in Kronenzeitung „And Again And Again the Sun Rises. -- Total Solar Eclise. The Sky and Media Event of the Year. An Austrian Wrote THE BOOK for It. Reveals Tips And Tricks. And Makes the Business of His Life with the Superstar, That Is the Sun.” (2 pages, text and 5 pics)

12 August 1999: Norbert Swoboda in Kleine Zeitung „Next Time ‘Live’ -- Solar Eclipse: Viennese Author Werner Raffetseder Reported Live for the ZDF at Mainz Yesterday. He Missed the Wonder of Nature. But Soon He Will Travel to the South Seas And See the Next Eclipse in 2001.” (1 page, text and 1 pic).

Moreover, there are lots of book reviews to be found. Here are only two:

22 July 1999: Miloš Vec in Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung Nr. 167, p. 53: „Der Mast ist zu niedrig, der Mond zu hoch. – The Mast Is Too Low, the Moon Is Too High“.

07-08 August 1999: Helmut Hornung in Süddeutsche Zeitung Nr. 180: „The Travelling Night“

Besides radio and TV-appearances where Raffetseder was interviewed about his multimedia works and other topics in Austrian and German stations, he was at least twice invited to ORF TV-broadcasts as the guest of honour:

31 March 1996: broadcast “Seniorenclub”, ORF channel 2.

07 August 1999: broadcast “Millionenrad”, ORF channel 2.

Hope this will help. --VuestraMerced (talk) 13:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Forgot to mention: library allows to scan and upload or send all this printed matter. ORF Vienna maybe reached day and night under 0043-1-87878-0 from abroad--VuestraMerced (talk) 13:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC).


 * These are all reviews of some of his books, like FAZ, Süddeutsche, not descriptions of him as a person. All I want is single article like the one mentioned above on Stefano Pilati. --bender235 (talk) 14:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The articles by Vec and Hornung in FAZ and Süddeutsche Zeitung are book reviews, all the other articles mentioned above are not at all. They focus Raffetseder's work or knowledge or life under extreme conditions on the garbage mountain of Manila but do not at all review his books. They deal with two of Raffetseder's projects, that have by far yielded more output than just a book, namely multimedia-productions and lots of printed stuff (that is also still around) and for which Raffetseder has gained a lot of public presence in Austria and Germany before starting his United Festivals initiative. Of course, the articles do not touch his privacy, nor are they to be found online: It took me hours to find them in this library, so if you need physical proof, let me know. I am ready to upload or send --VuestraMerced (talk) 16:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm done with this. Just an advice to the admin reviewing this: don't be fooled by this obvious meat-puppetry here. Check each user's contribs before assessing their comments. --bender235 (talk) 16:53, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Have added this reference to the article: http://www.faz.net/s/RubF3CE08B362D244869BE7984590CB6AC1/Doc~E9D5370806F4C40E292567042066AFA05~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 18:14, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Hello, I am Werner Raffetseder, just found out that, unintentionally, I became the subject of the upper discussion. I confirm what the Wikipedia articles are stating about me and our “United Festivals” program. The articles are alright even though displaying only facets of my professional life and this project, of course. If I can contribute to reach a consensus, you may contact me at: unitedfestivals@gmx.net. greetings, WRA. --195.70.232.230 (talk) 22:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 'Keep. Hello, I am Willy Puchner, a freelance journalist of Wiener Zeitung. The "Wiener Zeitung" has several times published articles about him and his projects and we are presently preparing another one in this media about his work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.128.2 (talk) 11:01, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow. The epitome of meat-puppetry. How pathetic. --bender235 (talk) 13:57, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Egad! Sorry for the links I set to the "United Festivals" article. I was not aware that this is considered spamming and should have asked an admin before. I am not Mr. Raffetseder, but previously had some contact to the United Festivals office through an acquaintance. My main contributions were made to the German Wikipedia (extensive rewriting of articles that had already been worked out in the English Wiki, so there was no need to import them here). My research about Mr. Raffetseder conforms to the details stated above and more, my articles were always carried out to the best of my knowledge. The informations I gave about United Festivals and its founder correspond to informations printed in local, regional and supraregional papers or aired on TV, some stored in the United Festivals office, as well. --Dr. mullah (talk) 14:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC) — Dr. mullah (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * As if anyone would believe that you weren't Raffetseder. When you're uploading Raffetseder's pictures and comment "own work", you were either lying back then and being honest right now, or the other way around. I suspect the latter. With so much WP:SOCK and WP:MEAT (please see WP:SPI), this article has to be deleted. This is getting almost comical. --bender235 (talk) 21:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This is either unfair or a misapprehension to be clarified. Where do you read “own work”? When I uploaded the pics I declared my sources in German saying: “vom Urheber (Rechteinhaber) übermittelt”, which means in English “forwarded by the author (copyright holder)” and that is what happened. The pics were forwarded to me be the author (copyright holder) respectively his office via email. And one last remark concerning your allegations of puppetry: Willy Puchner is also a renowned Austrian artist working for different media. How could anyone abuse his name to give statements here? Thank you. --Dr. mullah (talk) 10:05, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I am sorry to tell you but Werner Raffetseder has asked me to confirm that his work is published in the newspaper where I work as a freelancer. I confirm that "Wiener Zeitung" has published articles about him and his projects. That is the reason why I am involved in this thread. (Willy Puchner) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.138.77 (talk) 11:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Racepacket (talk) 03:09, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.