Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/White Lodging


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure)  CAPTAIN RAJU  (✉)   00:05, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

White Lodging

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails CORP. No sources to notability on article; a BEFORE search showed only a current article about the demolition of one of their properties, a few older articles about staff changes; nothing that rises above ROUTINE. This is not unexpected as hotel ownership and hotel management organizations are by nature low profile. John from Idegon (talk) 01:34, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Did you really do Before? I easily found plenty of sources to satisfy both Corp Depth and the GNG. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:10, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * So are they a state secret, ? If you easily found sources to satisfy Corp depth and gng, how does it help improve the encyclopedia to keep that info to yourself? John from Idegon (talk) 14:37, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I added them to the article before I voted, as you could have done before nominating the article for deletion. Philafrenzy (talk) 16:12, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Those sources are all ROUTINE. Staff changes, more sourcing on the ONEEVENT security incident. Further, none are what one would call reliable and independent. Nothing from PRnewswire can ever be considered for notability (the name is the givaway) and trade publications are very seldom usable to show notability, as they are constructed from press releases with no journalism at all. John from Idegon (talk) 16:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete, none of the sources pass WP:CORPDEPTH. John from Idegon is correct in saying that they are routine reports of staffing updates and are neither independent nor reliable. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:11, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:57, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:57, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kurykh (talk) 00:59, 10 April 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete Does not meet WP:NCORP. Insufficient in-depth coverage in RS. Sources given are routine or minor. MB 13:43, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep as a resource for anyone interested in researching this sizable company. Hyperbolick (talk) 17:57, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades Godric 06:47, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "White Lodging, one of the largest hospitality companies in the United States, has named a new chief executive officer as it gears up for rapid growth. Chief Financial Officer Ken Barrett has been named CEO of the Merrillville-based company, which has invested $2.5 billion in developing more than 125 upscale hotels over the last three decades. He replaces Dave Sibley, who will become chief operating officer. Chairman and founder Bruce White said the changes were made because of an upcoming phase of rapid expansion. White Lodging plans to open new hotels in Wisconsin, Texas, Tennessee, Colorado and Indiana next year. ...  White Lodging develops and manages leading hotel brands such as Marriott International Inc., Hilton Worldwide, Hyatt Global, Preferred Hotels & Resorts and InterContinental Hotel Group. Altogether, it manages 165 hotels in 19 states."  The article notes: "Later this summer, White Lodging will start a 63-room Fairfield Inn next to its Courtyard by Marriott hotel at 5660 N. Interstate 35, south of U.S. 290. The company last year bought the former Ramada Airport Hotel & Conference Center and spent $1.7 million converting it to the 198-room Courtyard. ... White Lodging was started in 1985 as a hotel operating division of Whiteco Industries, one of the country's largest outdoor advertising companies. The Celebration Station amusement park chain is another division of Whiteco, a privately held firm based in Merrillville, Ind. ...  Most of White Lodging's 20 existing hotels are affiliated with Marriott Hotels, although some are franchises of the Ramada, Comfort Inn and Radisson chains."  The article notes: "White Lodging currently has more than 100 hotels under management - a portfolio it built up in 22 years. The company could not have grown that quickly, he said, without delivering value to its owners, the White family. Bruce White is chairman and chief executive of the privately held company. His father, Dean, owns White Lodging's former parent, Whiteco Industries. Dean White is one of four billionaires in Indiana, according to Forbes magazine's 2007 rankings of the world's richest people. ... White Lodging operates many Marriott-branded hotels across the country, Livengood said. Marriotts make up most of the company's management portfolio, although it also runs some hotels with Hilton or other brands.  ...  White Lodging agreed to sell most of the properties it owned - 100 hotels - in a $1.7 billion deal last year. RLJ Development LLC - a Bethesda, Md.-based hotel investment company owned by the founder of Black Entertainment Television - bought the properties and left White Lodging in charge of managing them. Four downtown Louisville hotels, including the city's main convention center hotel, changed hands as part of that deal." <li> The article notes: "An Indiana developer plans to build and manage a new 21-story hotel on the southeast corner of 14th Street and Glenarm Place in downtown Denver. White Lodging Services said Tuesday that it will start construction this fall on a dual-branded Hyatt Place/Hyatt House property, with an opening scheduled for the spring of 2015. ... White Lodging, founded in 1985, is based in Merrillville, Ind. The company has 161 hotels in 20 states, including two dozen located in Colorado. Those Colorado properties include the Marriott Denver Westminster, Marriott Hotel Boulder and Marriott Hotel Denver South."</li> <li> The article notes: "The lodging company headed by the son of Crown Point's billionaire hotelier Dean White will receive a huge infusion of cash of its own, selling 100 hotels to prominent black businessman Robert L. Johnson for $1.7 billion on Monday. White Lodging Services is selling the hotels to RLJ Development, controlled by Johnson, but the Merrillville-based company will still manage the hotels. Bruce White is CEO and chairman of White Lodging. ... Currently, the company owns and manages a number of different hotel brands including Marriott, Fairfield Inn, Hilton Garden Inn and Holiday Inn Express. Judy Bronowski, vice president of strategic planning and communications for White Lodging, said the company is also actively involved in developing additional Homewood brands. The company has close to 5,000 employees and was founded in 1985."</li> <li> The article notes: "In the latest in a spate of online attacks affecting American businesses, White Lodging, which manages hotel franchises for chains like Marriott, Hilton and Starwood Hotels, is investigating a potential security breach involving customers’ payment information. White Lodging Services Corporation, which works with 168 hotels in 21 states, confirmed that it was examining the data breach."</li> <li> The article notes: "Robert Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, said Monday that his hotel investment company would pay $1.7 billion to buy 100 hotels in the United States from White Lodging Services. The sale of the hotels, mostly under the Marriott name and located in Indiana, Texas and Illinois, will be staggered, with 87 deals set to close in the second quarter and the remainder within the next two years, Johnson's company, RLJ Development, said. Johnson sold Black Entertainment Television to Viacom for $3 billion in 2001. ... Under the agreement, White Lodging will continue to manage the hotels, which will operate under their current brand names and franchise agreements. White Lodging, a 21-year-old company run by Bruce White, develops and manages midsize to large hotels in the United States. It operates hotels under the Courtyard by Marriott and Residence Inn by Marriott names."</li> <li> The article notes: "Eight hotels containing almost 4,000 rooms are scheduled to open across Austin within the next three years, making the Texas capital one of the most active markets in the country for new hotel construction. White Lodging, a private hotel developer and manager responsible for about a third of those rooms, is betting big on Austin. Although the Indiana firm has put up and managed mostly midmarket hotels near the airport or in the Austin suburbs for the last two decades and currently owns or manages 23, White Lodging is gambling its two new downtown hotels, the JW Marriott and Westin, will be worth its more than $400 million investment. ... Austin’s booming tech industry, from start-ups to offices for Dell, Samsung and Apple; universities; and its location as the world headquarters for Whole Foods help make White Lodging’s gamble seem sound."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow White Lodging to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 07:03, 18 April 2017 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Delete. The coverage seems to be business-as-usual, coming mostly from local newspapers, often in passing. I don't think this makes it notable. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:39, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * White Lodging is based in Merrillville, Indiana. It has received significant coverage in the Austin American-Statesman in Austin, Texas; The Denver Post in Denver, Colorado; and The New York Times. The Journal Gazette is based in Fort Wayne, Indiana, which is 124 miles from Merrillville, Indiana. There is plenty of nonlocal coverage. The company has received sustained coverage. The Austin American-Statesman article was published in 1994. The New York Times article was published in 2013 and The Times of Northwest Indiana article was published in 2016. The Times of Northwest Indiana article says White Lodging is "one of the largest hospitality companies in the United States" and notes that it manages 165 hotels in 19 states.  A 2006 article in the Post-Tribune noted, "The lodging company headed by the son of Crown Point's billionaire hotelier Dean White will receive a huge infusion of cash of its own, selling 100 hotels to prominent black businessman Robert L. Johnson for $1.7 billion on Monday." A company that does a $1.7 billion deal through the sale of some of its assets is notable.  This company is clearly notable for receiving sustained, national coverage.  Cunard (talk) 08:45, 18 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Really? What notability guideline states that companies that make big money deals are notable? All of the citations you've shown here are stories on transactions or personel changes. Further, if you look at them closely, they share a close similarity in style, even though they come from separate papers. This says to me they were written off press releases. There is simply not enough depth in sourcing to have a decent verifiable article, which is why we have notability guidelines in the first place. John from Idegon (talk) 09:28, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Notability (organizations and companies) says: "When evaluating the notability of organizations or products, please consider whether they have had any significant or demonstrable effects on culture, society, entertainment, athletics, economies, history, literature, science, or education." A company that sells $1.7 billion worth of hotels has had a "significant or demonstrable effec[t]" on "society". Cunard (talk) 15:16, 18 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete on the merits. The sources provided confirm that the company exists, and that it conducts business. Good as far as it goes. But those sources also focus on routine business activity. White Lodging did X, and also is a company. What I want to see is an article that reads "White Lodging is a noteworthy company, because it is doing X, Y, and Z..." or some such. In other words, the thing being noted by those sources is what the company is doing - NOT what it is. UltraExactZZ Said~ Did 12:58, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Notability (organizations and companies) says: "Deep coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond routine announcements and makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about an organization." It does not require sources to say why a company is a noteworthy company. If a source did say why a company was noteworthy, many editors would dismiss that as being a promotional, advertorial article. Cunard (talk) 15:16, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * But the routine business activity is not what is notable, and not what we're writing an article about. The business itself is - and the business itself isn't what's being covered in the sources, except in passing. I agree that great depth isn't required as such, but some measurable level of depth is. UltraExactZZ Said~ Did 12:43, 19 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete While Cunard quotes from Notability guidelines above, it also states that we need "verifiable evidence that the organization or product has attracted the notice of reliable sources unrelated to the organization". The sources provided do not get pass WP:ORGINFO and/or rely on information provided directly by the company or their staff. Fails WP:CORP. -- HighKing ++ 16:24, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- the sources offered above are local and advertorially toned as in "Company to build 3 hotels along I-35 - Indiana firm expects to spend $9.2 million to open lodgings" (future-looking, puffy piece). The rest of the sources are similar. WP:CORPDEPTH fail. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:23, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. I acknowledge the opinions here that the coverage is superficial and the company is run of the mill, but I agree with Cunard: a company of this size and geographical influence, whose activities have been widely covered in national and regional media, is sufficiently notable to warrant coverage in our encyclopedia. To omit sourceable, relevant material about this important Indiana company, a significant national player in the hotel business, would unnecessarily cut a small hole in our coverage of those subjects.  I suppose an alternative might be to incorporate this content into the existing articles about Indiana's influential White family, but I find this less attractive given the wider scope of the company's operations.  --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:57, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep large company with notability established through multiple RS as noted by other keep advocates -- Whats new?(talk) 23:10, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep I've gone back and looked in detail at the sources and references provided. I believe that there are sufficient reliable secondary sources that establish notability and therefore I've struck my Delete !vote above. My comments on the sources are below.
 * The Northwest Indiana Times article reports a company announcement of a new CEO with some quotes from the founder and chairman. Fails as per item 5 at WP:CORPDEPTH
 * Austin American Statesman] article is also not intellectually independent and relies on quotes and information from the company and its officers including a potted history and forward looking statements. Fails as the reference is a primary reference and fails WP:ORGCRITE.
 * THe Journal Gazette article is acceptable from the point of view of being an independent source.
 * The Denver Post is reporting on a company press release. Fails point 5 and 9 of WP:CORPDEPTH
 * Indiana Post-Tribute article is good as a reference to establish notability in my opinion. Even though it contains quotations from various sources, the article appears to be independent and objective.
 * The New York Times article is independent and discusses a data breach at the company
 * The New York Times article is a press release and forward looking statements about a potential sale. In my opinion, this fails point 6 of WP:CORPDEPTH
 * The New York Times] namechecks the company and gets a brief quote from company personal but on the whole, the article appears to be independent and objective.
 * Based on the above, there are 4 secondary reliable independent sources that establish notability. Meets WP:CORPDEPTH. -- HighKing ++ 17:41, 21 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.