Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Why Men Marry Bitches


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Liz Read! Talk! 00:32, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Why Men Marry Bitches

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

After looking for sources to support this article for a book, I was able to find one review in Publishers Weekly, which is good. However, I only found one other review, which was from a questionable source. The author did go on the Today Show to discuss the book, but I think that has more to do with the first book, Why Men Love Bitches, than the notability of this book. I feel like notability of this book is on the line. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 00:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: the book received fairly wide coverage in the news. I've added a couple of refs to the article, but there are probably better ones available. Owen&times; &#9742;  01:32, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * OwenX: I appreciate the support in improving the article. However, one of the sources provided does not discuss the book at all (only its predecessor) and I could argue that the other source doesn't provide significant coverage of the book. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 01:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The longer version of the Sunday times article referneces the second book as well. 2603:8001:6E00:293C:B890:4827:F6C4:C286 (talk) 01:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * KEEPCurrently both books are charting on Apple ibooks bestsellers. See: https://books.apple.com/us/charts/nonfiction/9002. According to Simon and schuster, the book sold 1 million copies and is also a NYT bestseller. 2603:8001:6E00:293C:B890:4827:F6C4:C286 (talk) 01:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Sherry Argov Right now we have one review and absolutely nothing about the content of the book itself.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 01:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See: https://books.apple.com/us/charts/nonfiction/9002 and please click on the "see all" link on the upper right side to expand the list. I share this not only for the two books being discussed, but the notability of the  books that are on the same list (all of them have independent Wikipedia pages). 2603:8001:6E00:293C:B890:4827:F6C4:C286 (talk) 02:32, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * We don't source any book to an e-commerce site; that's pretty much one of the top rules regarding sourcing. You can't be that obtuse, truly.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 03:21, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Switching to keep as it took a bit, but a basic and supported summary not based on publisher/bookseller copy has been added, addressing my concern.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 22:44, 17 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: Yahoo UK has this article and this in Bustle (which isn't the most reliable source, but this seems fine), should be at notability. Also some discussion (brief) in Brazil about the book .  Oaktree b (talk) 02:12, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tiktokers-send-self-help-book-for-bitches-into-charts-after-20-years-jpjhkgmdthttps://www.newsweek.com/book-tiktok-why-men-love-1568446https://www.today.com/video/why-men-marry-strong-women-460352067547https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/love-sex/why-men-love-bitches/articleshow/6127860.cmshttps://www.bustle.com/articles/21737-do-men-really-love-bitches-depends-on-your-definition-of-the-wordhttps://www.bustle.com/entertainment/why-men-love-bitches-trend-gen-z-tiktokhttps://www.newsweek.com/book-tiktok-why-men-love-1568446https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/opinion/you/why-bad-girls-score-good/articleshow/21843606.cmshttps://newsghana.com.gh/why-men-love-bitches/https://www.sololibri.net/Il-viaggio-Luigi-Pirandello-novella-analisi-commento.htmlhttps://www.elimparcial.com/tijuana/tijuana/Por-que-los-hombres-aman-a-las-cabronas-llegara-a-Tijuana--y-Mexicali-20211111-0013.htmlhttps://www.cultura.gob.mx/estados/actividades_detalle.php?id=105333https://www.elsoldepuebla.com.mx/gossip/omg/aracely-arambula-david-zepeda-y-anastasia-rompen-tabus-con-un-trio-en-puebla-4764319.htmlhttps://www.bookey.app/book/why-men-marry-bitches 2603:8001:6E00:293C:B890:4827:F6C4:C286 (talk) 03:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The Times UK: "TikTokers send self-help book for ‘bitches’ into charts after 20 years": Subscription, unable to find "marry" in preview, but may exist.
 * Today Show: "Why men marry strong women": Primary source: Interview with the author on Today
 * The Times of India: Why men love 'bitches': Reprint of the article in the Bangalore Mirror (shared below)
 * Bustle: Do Men Love Bitches?: One sentence that mentions the book: "Argov, who also wrote the follow-up Why Men Marry Bitches defines a bitch as a woman who is confident, secure, and independent."
 * Bustle: The Second Coming Of Why Men Love Bitches: One sentence that mentions the book: "WMLB and its 2006 sequel, Why Men Marry Bitches, first went viral on BookTok in 2021"
 * Newsweek: The Author of 2002's 'Why Men Love Bi**hes' Is Heartwarmed By All the TikTok Attention: One sentence that mentions the book: "Why Men Love Bi**hes: From Doormat to Dreamgirl—A Woman's Guide to Holding Her Own in a Relationship and its 2016 year follow-up, Why Men Marry Bi**hes: A Woman's Guide to Winning Her Man's Heart, were bestsellers not long after their original releases and have sold consistently since"
 * Bangalore Mirror: Why bad girls score good: Provides an overview of the two book's key ideas
 * News Ghana: Why Men Loves Bitches: Reprint of the article in the Bangalore Mirror
 * SoloLibri.net: “Il viaggio”: la novella femminista di Luigi Pirandello (in Italian): Review that's not about any work by Shelly Argov
 * El Imparcial: 'Por qué los hombres aman a las cabronas' llegará a Tijuana y Mexicali (in Spanish): Article about the play Why Men Love Bitches; doesn't mention Why Men Marry Bitches
 * Government of Mexico, Culture" Porqué los hombres aman a las cabronas (in Spanish): Routine coverage about the play Why Men Love Bitches; doesn't mention Why Men Marry Bitches
 * El Sol de Puebla: Aracely Arámbula, David Zepeda y Anastasia rompen tabús con un trío en Puebla: Article about the play Why Men Love Bitches; doesn't mention Why Men Marry Bitches
 * Bookey App: Why Men Marry Bitches Summary And Review: Maybe useful? Provides a summary of the book with some commentary on it.
 * Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 18:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Sexuality and gender,  and United States of America.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  05:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge with Sherry_Argov. killer  bee    09:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Meets WP:NBOOK (and GNG). There are also reviews in Library Journal, Maclean's , Tuscon Citizen &mdash;siro&chi;o 09:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with the above. The second book was featured on the Today Show two times (see caption: "Al Roker talks with Sherry Argov about her new book Why Men Marry Bitches"). The websites I was able to find about the second book only are: Publisher's Weekly, Tuscon Citizen, Macleans, Library Journal, Sydney Morning Herald, Daily Nation (Africa), Periodicos (Brazil), Panorama (Italy), Domashniy (Russia), Siechnice (Poland) Kobieta (Poland), Babinet (Czech).  The ones that review or reference her first and second book: Times U.K., Sunday Times U.K., The Times India, Mumbai Mirror, Newsweek, Bustle.
 * https://www.today.com/video/why-men-marry-strong-women-460352067547
 * https://www.today.com/health/want-man-propose-5-relationship-principles-keep-mind-t74256
 * https://nation.africa/kenya/life-and-style/saturday-magazine/bookiscape-book-club--3442714
 * https://www.panorama.it/cultura/3-libri-riconoscere-stronzo-stronza
 * https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-men-love-bitches-the-retro-relationship-bible-that-gen-z-cant-get-enough-of-w5cftc0r5
 * https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/love-sex/why-men-love-bitches/articleshow/6127860.cms
 * https://babinet.cz/clanek-2569-knizka-proc-si-muzi-berou-potvory-a-hodne-holky-zustanou-na-ocet.html
 * https://www.newsweek.com/book-tiktok-why-men-love-1568446 both books
 * https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/10-things-i-learnt-about-men-this-summer-20120116-1q35y.html
 * http://periodicos.uesc.br/index.php/eidea/article/view/397
 * https://kobieta.interia.pl/uczucia/news-dziesiec-dowodow-na-to-ze-marnujesz-z-nim-swoj-cenny-czas,nId,2403573
 * https://siechnice.com.pl/news/prezenty-walentynkowe-on-line-ostatnia-chwila
 * https://domashniy.ru/svadba/sterva_vyhodit_zamuzh_20_principov_otnoshenij 69.122.188.214 (talk) 19:39, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The goal of this discussion is to determine whether the book meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines for books. As such, we are looking for reliable, independent sources that provide significant coverage of the book. Here's an analysis of the sources you provided:
 * Today Show: Why men marry strong women: Interviews with the author are not independent and thus, don't count toward notability
 * Today Show: Want a man to propose? 5 relationship principles to keep in mind: An excerpt from the book is not independent from the source and thus, doesn't count toward notability
 * Nation: Bookiscape Book Club: Provides one paragraph discussing a book club response to the book. This does not provide significant coverage and thus, doesn't count toward notability.
 * Panorama: 3 libri per riconoscere 'lo stronzo' (ma anche 'la stronza') che hai di fronte (in Italian): I'd say this is questionable. It provides a multi-paragraph summary of the text.
 * The Times: Why Men Love Bitches: the retro relationship bible that Gen Z can't get enough of: Again, this article is based on subscription, so I can't tell if it actually mentions this book, but I'll AGF. However, based on the description, it seems to be written from an interview with the author, which may mean it's not independent.
 * The Times of India: Why men love 'bitches': Provides a summary of key points discussed in the text, though it's unclear whether the article is about this book or Why Men Love Bitches.
 * Babinet: Knížka: Proč si muži berou potvory a hodné holky zůstanou na ocet (in Czech): This source provides a review of the book. It has significant coverage and is independent. Because I'm not familiar with Czech or Czech sources, I can't determine the reliability of this source.
 * Newsweek: The Author of 2002's 'Why Men Love Bi**hes' Is Heartwarmed By All the TikTok Attention: This source still doesn't provide significant coverage about this book (see my earlier comment).
 * The Sydney Morning Herald: 10 things I learnt about men this summer: This source doesn't provide significant coverage of the book.
 * EID&A: A dicotomia razão e emoção na obra Por que os homens se casam com as mulheres poderosas? Uma breve análise do tratamento dado às emoções femininas (in Portuguese): This source was provided earlier and is currently listed on the article. It's a good source, though.
 * Kobieta: Dziesięć dowodów na to, że marnujesz z nim swój cenny czas (in Polish): Provides an excerpt of the book, which doesn't count as independent.
 * siechnice.com.pl: Prezenty walentynkowe - ostatnia chwila! (in Polish): This source doesn't mention Argov at all...
 * Стерва выходит замуж: 20 принципов отношений (in Russian): This provides a quick overview of the first 20 principles, which I would argue (again) doesn't count toward establishing notability.
 * If you disagree with any of my reasoning, please feel free to reply.
 * Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. A lot of sources provided here do not actually support notability, as Significa liberdade very helpfully outlines. However, WP:NBOOK only requires two or more non-trivial published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself. This can include ... reviews. I'm happy to take Library Journal and Maclean's  as the two independent, non-trivial reviews. In future I advise the IP editor(s) here to focus more on policy and quality, rather than quantity: all these interviews, excerpts, and TV appearances are a distraction.  ~ L 🌸  (talk) 23:34, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: certainly enough to support having an article.  whether its better for readers to have one article discussing the books and the author is a separate inquiry.--Milowent • hasspoken  19:14, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Subject meets WP:NBOOK and the WP:GNG. User:Let'srun 15:47, 17 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.