Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wilf Billington


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. There is still significant disagreement about the quality of the sourcing here. While prima facie I find the delete arguments slightly more compelling relative to our P&G's, the keep arguments have significant more support. Closing as no consensus as a reflection of this, I didn't consider relisting as it has already been relisted once and it appears we are at a stalemate of sorts. Daniel (talk) 19:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Wilf Billington

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:ATHLETE.  Delta  space 42 (talk • contribs) 08:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Football.  Delta  space 42  (talk • contribs) 08:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  12:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - fatally flawed nomination by somebody who, respectfully, does not have a clue, as shown by their attempt to CSD A7 the article prior to this AFD. This is a professional player (over 50 appearances) active in the 1940s and 1950s with sufficient sources to show notability. GiantSnowman 19:44, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment That was 50+ caps in the the lowest division of the professional football league, so I am not sure about the coverage for that, also, did he not play for Blackburn at all? That's a long time at a club and not playing for them in that whole period doesn't seem right. Certainly feels incomplete on wikipedia, there could be more around. But I am really on the fence for this one atm, unless someone can shed more light with better citations on this players career. Govvy (talk) 21:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - Fails GNG. Billington states in source 3 that he "I was on Rovers books from 1947 to 1954 but I never got a run in the first team." I didn't find any sigcov in a newspapers.com search. There is a paragraph in a Derby Evening Telegraph match preview but that's as good as it gets. Dougal18 (talk) 13:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, per Dougal. I couldn't find anything either -- not even the (non-RS) BRFC fan sites and forums had anything to say about him, and those guys generally have access to local archives.JoelleJay (talk) 01:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * the article has been expanded and sources added. Surprisingly, there are primarily offline sources about a player active in the 1950s! GiantSnowman 09:42, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Article is still lacking in sources giving sigcov. Dougal18 (talk) 12:01, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See below. GiantSnowman 12:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: To review sourcing added during this discussion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 09:37, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:BASIC which allows us to combine multiple independent sources discussing this goalkeeper who was active from the late 1940s through to the early 1960s in both England and Australia, now added to the article. Most focused piece is an obituary in a local newspaper in Cumbria, England (which includes a quote from Billington but also multiple paragraphs with facts about his life). As mentioned above, the 1955 Derby Evening Telegraph article offers a paragraph recognising Billington as one of manager Bill Shankly's best signings who had developed into a "sound and reliable goalkeeper"; the 1955 Lincolnshire Echo article recognising him as one of the best goalkeepers in the Football League is not in-depth, but is evidence that he was highly regarded. In addition, the ups and downs of his career (and his activities post-retirement) were followed closely in Australian soccer newspapers and magazines from 1959 through 1966, with the pinnacle of his career the 1963 NSW Grand Final when South Coast United shut out favourites APIA, 4–0 in front of a crowd of 30,000+ at Sydney Stadium. Also WP:HEY. Cielquiparle (talk) 23:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:BASIC also states "trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability". None of the sources except the cumbriacrack obit covers Wilf Billington in detail. I'm not sure why Don Revie's opinion on goalies two leagues below him and praise for Billington's abilities is relevant but there is no sigcov there. Occasional mentions in magazines is not his Aussie career being "followed closely"'. He also can't get sigcov from mentions in stories about his son's football career. Dougal18 (talk) 16:46, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Is Cumbria Crack RS? We don't get any details on specific authors, and they have a page for submitting your own sports reports to them... The Derby Evening piece is two sentences of pure transactional/local interest news. It's among nine other such "profiles" on that page documenting "today's visitors to the baseball ground". HEY doesn't mean anything if the sources of the expansion are trivial mentions. The global community came to a strong consensus that sports biographies must have a piece of IRS SIGCOV cited in the article, and this has been upheld in hundreds of AfDs at this point despite claims of BASIC. JoelleJay (talk) 16:47, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * NSPORT / SPORTCRIT is a sub-guideline of NBIO / NBASIC; it does not have the authority to overrule the authority on which it is based! (i.e. SPORTCRIT does not have more power than NBASIC); per the creator of SPORTCRIT: "SPORTBASIC #5 was never intended, nor should it be misused, to trump or overrule the more general, overarching rule" / "SPORTBASIC #5 creates a very strong prohibition on sports bios sourced only to databases. However, in limited circumstances where a well-rounded biography can be created using multiple non-database sources, NBASIC provides a very limited saftey valve". BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:21, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You forgot the part where he said Such circumstances are very rare, and I've only come across one circumstance in the past two years where I concluded that it was appropriately applied., which indicates that the claim of NBASIC put forth 99% of the time would not be sufficient to overcome SC5. And that one instance didn't even have consensus support that NBASIC should be applied, as it closed NC. As it is intended (and as was understood by editors at the RfC, where this "escape clause" was not codified) to be applied, there is a clear prohibition on the flimsy sourcing most often asserted for NBASIC. JoelleJay (talk) 03:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep - Per above. Player with online and offlune sources. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - as per GiantSnowman and Das. Played at highest level in Australia, grand finals and national cups. Eccy89 (talk) 14:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - plenty of coverage and decent sources, the subject played at a high level of football and the citations support this. Article text is of decent quality and every sentence is supported by a citation. Inter&#38;anthro (talk) 16:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.