Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wilkins Lumber


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The only "keep" opinion does not address sourcing, and the opinion by Coolabahapple that does do so does not express a preference for keeping. If better sources are later found, the article can be restored.  Sandstein  21:48, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Wilkins Lumber

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Local company with no larger presence and no notability outside that area. Sources are all local, nothing from outside the small radius they operate in. Fails WP:NCORP and WP:CORPDEPTH. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Hampshire-related deletion discussions. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   20:29, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep, this is an old article, never included in any WikiProject, so neglected and isolated and undeveloped. I guess it is targeted for AFD because it is written in a quaint, modest way "a small company", etc., that is out of style now, rather than punching with promotional assertions.  However it is about one of the oldest mill companies in New Hampshire, maybe one of the earliest ever sawmills in New Hampshire, and I am sure there is offline coverage about the company, the original sawmill, later expanded mill facilities, over the centuries.  The topic includes history, historic sites, technology.  Historic sawmills are relatively rarer than grinding mills;  see Category:Sawmills vs. Category:Grinding mills in the United States.  There is no New Hampshire-specific mills category, at all, as far as I can tell.
 * Add to WikiProject Mills, WikiProject Historic sites, WikiProject New Hampshire, and post notices in those Wikiprojects asking for any info. Tag it for development.  Does the historic mill still exist, or ruins of it, and are those listed on any historic registry?  Then revisit in a year or two. --Doncram (talk) 09:41, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 05:51, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete I am unable to locate a single reference that meets the criteria for establishing notability. It is a really old company - if it were notable, you would expect to find something by way of reference. Topic fails GNG and WP:NCORP.  HighKing++ 16:14, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. sadly not notable. Only primary sources exist. Lightburst (talk) 18:50, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment, editors need to be careful that they do not reject an article because the sources listed are not online/hard to access, with this article the references section has a book, The History of Millford, and two newspaper articles (from the Nashua Telegraph, and the Union Leader, the largest papers in the state(?)), none of these are "primary", they do not appear to be available online, but that is not a reason to delete an article, as for "unable to locate a single reference that meets the criteria for establishing notability", a quick gsearch reveals the following: from The Nashua Telegraph - "Making the Case For Lumber Company" (an editorial, so senior staff of a major state newspaper see this company as significant), "Lumber Firm Seeks Conservation Easements", "Area's Last Sawmill Struggles Against Global Competition, Even As It Donates Land To Conservation", from the Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests - "Sawmill Owners' Generosity Provides Chance To Conserve 500 Acres in Amherst, Mont Vernon" (i acknowledge most of these are about the one issue), so sources do appear to be out there. Coolabahapple (talk) 03:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Response Good point that some sources may be offline (perhaps even likely) due to the age of this company. But the sources you've highlighted above do not meet the criteria for establishing notability. There's a higher standard for notability-establishing sources than for other sources that may be used within an article to support facts, etc. We need to see two sources that talk about the sawmills in an in-depth manner (WP:CORPDEPTH) and contain independent content (WP:ORGIND). Independent content, in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. In my opinion, those sources do not meet this standard.  HighKing++ 10:51, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * hi, agree that unfortunately they are not indepth, it was probably wishful thinking on my part that listing them might encourage editors with an interest in the history/development of the New England timber industry to find better sources (i'm also surprised that they do not have some sort of hertiage listing, although the all consuming fire of the 40s wouldn't help:)), hence, why i commented only. Coolabahapple (talk) 05:54, 9 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.