Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Buck


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Kurykh (talk) 02:54, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

William Buck

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

I couldn't establish that he is WP:NOTABLE, although sources may not be on the Internet. Tagged for notability for 5 years, hopefully we can resolve it now. Boleyn (talk) 11:40, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. North America1000 11:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 11:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. North America1000 11:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 11:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Changing to Keep The subject supposedly served as umpire for two games in 1871. NATHLETE doesn't include umpires so the subject doesn't qualify there. The only source cited is Retrosheet which I'm not sure is reliable. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 13:09, 4 November 2016 (UTC) Based on Smmurphy's additions. It looks like NBASEBALL allows umpires. I don't think the Maryland Pastime Club games count as major league but I think with the newspaper coverage and the book he now passes the extremely low bar of GNG. I'd ask, , and  to have a second look.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:25, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete if umpiring two games of baseball was the only thing he did, it seems hard to argue that it is notable. JMWt (talk) 15:00, 4 November 2016 (UTC) Keep - due to impressive detective work by Smmurphy JMWt (talk) 10:07, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment. If the article is deleted, the contents of William Buck (disambiguation) will need to be moved into it, leaving the (disambiguation) page as a redirect. Narky Blert (talk) 14:36, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. IMO Smmurphy has proved notability, so my housekeeping-type comment is now irrelevant. Narky Blert (talk) 23:49, 10 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Merge to the dab-page. "William F Buck" could usefully appear in the list, but essentially he is NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:35, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Retrosheet is reliable, but routine. We can be confident this information is accurate, contrary to 's concerns, but the coverage there is routine game reports. Not notable. Smartyllama (talk) 17:32, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
 *  Weak Keep - Does he meat Notability (sports)? Particularly the 5th criteria, "5. Have served as a Major League Baseball umpire on a regular league staff." That is, is the National Association a regular league? I don't know what a umpire on a staff is, does appearing in boxscores count as being on a staff? I am very close to !voting delete, for the reasons given above, but I'm curious. Smmurphy(Talk) 16:56, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've found a "William F. Henley Buck" who was the captain of the Princeton baseball club in 1870 and died in 1890 . I'm not sure if this is the same person, nor do either of these facts have much bearing on notability. Smmurphy(Talk) 17:20, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm now sure it is the same person. Buck played for the Baltimore Pastime in 1871. The Pastime were a professional team in 1870 (see 1870 in baseball) and played against teams which were a part of the National Association in 1871, but I don't see further mention of them in Wikipedia. The National Association, which is covered by the notability page I linked, formed in 1871. Buck played in games against teams listed as national association teams, the Olympics (genealogybank finds: Base Ball, Evening Star (Washington (DC), District of Columbia) Friday, October 6, 1871, Page: 4) and the Athletics. He also umpired in an amateur game that season between Harvard and Brown (genealogybank finds: Base Ball, Boston Journal (Boston, Massachusetts), Monday, May 15, 1871, Volume: XXXVIII Issue: 12729 Page: 1). I think playing for the Baltimore Pastime in 1871 and his umpire work in National Association games and being captain of a top amateur team (Princeton 1870) counts as being a professional baseball player at the highest level and have changed my !vote to keep. Smmurphy(Talk) 18:33, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I've updated the page, he also played for the Baltimore Marylands, it seems. The Princeton University book citations I added aren't great in terms of establishing notability (every member of Princeton's class of 1870 has a biography, I think, in one of them), and the newspapers.com based citations are routine if we think of him as an amateur and semi-pro player. But taken together, plus evidence he played for the Marylands, which was a top division team, I think implies notability, both gng and nsports. Smmurphy(Talk) 19:45, 10 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.