Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Crichton, 2nd Earl of Dumfries


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 22:20, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

William Crichton, 2nd Earl of Dumfries

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A hoax tag was placed on this page in September 2020. Also, the only source mentioned in this page is Cracroftspeerage, which was deprecated by Wikipedia in 2020 as self-published (meaning not reliable for genealogical information). Another source on the person found using a Google search - Geni.com - is also unreliable as it is an open wiki - a type of self-published source. Ohter sources found on a Google search on this person (thepeerage, wikitrees) are also unreliable due to similar reasoning. Train of Knowledge (Talk) 00:26, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Train of Knowledge (Talk) 00:26, 16 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I have a source: .  The Earl of Dumfries page looks most unlikely to be a complete hoax.  Not disputing that sourcing could be improved. PatGallacher (talk) 02:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  11:09, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 00:40, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * per nomination --Jonalia (talk) 01:08, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: The hoax tag, placed by, was perhaps inspired by the line "[Crichton] objected to the posthumous execution of Alexander Peden." How, after all, can a dead man be killed? But this is clarified by the article on Peden, which (in a section by , and  by ) states that Penen's corpse was to be hanged out of some facile form of retribution, until Crichton interceded. Though the sources used in the article on Peden do not appear to mention this episode, it is discussed in the The New Statistical Account of Scotland (link): "after [Peden] had been forty days in the grave, a troop of dragoons came and disinterred the body. They brought it in its decaying putrid state to Cumnock, intending to have it hung up in chains on the gallows; but, at the earnest intercession of the Countess of Dumfries, and the Lady Affleck, the Earl of Dumfries interfered, and told Murray that he had erected the gibbet for murderers and malefactors, and not for such men as Peden." (see also History of the County of Ayr).


 * Together with 's source and the Earl of Dumfries page, this appears to put to rest both the hoax theory and the only reason proffered for deletion. I've removed the hoax template accordingly. --Usernameunique (talk) 02:57, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Posthumous execution is certainly a well-established procedure, Oliver Cromwell is the best-known example, even if there is an element of doubt about what happened in this case. PatGallacher (talk) 05:58, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't believe that the article is a hoax. But it contains little information other than this person's name, and nothing indicates notability. Dimadick (talk) 06:13, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Reply As an earl he would have been a member of the Parliament of Scotland. Membership of a national legislative body is normally enough to confer notability, see the notability guidelines for biographies. PatGallacher (talk) 06:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete; I could have said merge to Earl of Dumfries, but there's nothing much to merge. From the Earl of Dumfries article, all those redlinks could also be removed IMO — there's no need to have an article on each individual holder of the title, if there's nothing to say about the person other than that they existed. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Earl of Dumfries. Completely disagree with the assessment to delete when there is clear evidence in Scottish Peerage that he exists which goes against this being a hoax. Also, there is a page with his name on it, so why @, , have you not considered a redirect?? Govvy (talk) 12:11, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as a privy councillor. Phil Bridger (talk) 10:12, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The article was tagged as a hoax and it clearly is not. The article was nominated for deletion because there are no reliable sources, when there clearly are. As to the question of notability, Crichton is mentioned by multiple authors in multiple books published in the 19th and 20th centuries. If the proof of notability is whether someone appears easily in Google results then god help us. AlistairMcMillan (talk) 16:54, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as a Privy Councillor and per WP:POLITICIAN as a member of a national legislature. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - members of a national parliament are always notable. Bearian (talk) 20:20, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - Clearly insufficient searching on the part of the nominator, who apparently only checked Google Search but not Google Books. ネイ (talk) 07:17, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - member of a national parliament, privy councillor.  // Timothy :: talk  14:06, 30 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.