Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Duckworth (football manager)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Teddy Duckworth. ST47 (talk) 05:28, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

William Duckworth (football manager)

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Non-existing person Oalexander (talk) 08:18, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

The article was based on two references. The references to RSSSF have since become obsolete. Thus, we are left wit a reference to Biographie de William DUCKWORTH, ASSE-Live.com, per 21 November 2019, which in turn is contradicted by RSSSF  (Erik Garin: France - Trainers of First and Second Division Clubs'', RSSSF, per  26 September 2019). I assert, that the ASSE website uses an incorrect first name. Oalexander (talk) 08:19, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge with Teddy Duckworth - the nominator is correct in saying that the RSSSF source no longer mentions a 'William Duckworth' (though it once did); they have confirmed his identity as Teddy Duckworth. This name confusion is fairly common for British managers in Europe in the early twentieth century. Saying he does not exist, however, is simply incorrect, as he clearly did, it just happens that once source calls him by one name and another source by another. There was no need for an AFD, this could have been discussed and sorted at the article talk page. GiantSnowman 09:01, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 09:01, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:08, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:08, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:08, 22 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Merge Agree entirely with GiantSnowman - this is a clear merge, though I'm not sure how much there is to merge. SportingFlyer  T · C  12:12, 22 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Close Discussion: The issue is settled, The article "William" will be removed as by my suggestion in the article's discussion two years ago. If the meagre contents will be united with the meager Teddy Duckworth article, hardly matters. As the author addressed me personally, I will take the time to reply:
 * - "name confusion is fairly common for British managers": Therefore due dilligence should be exercised when one is advised on the talk page - rather precisely two years ago - of the article; research could have drawn on the WP:DE and WP:FR articles. There is never an excuse for laziness or incompetence.
 * - " this could have been discussed and sorted at the article talk page": It could have. The author suggested there, I provide "evidence". The author should nevertheless respect, that I am wholly disinclined to discuss "evidence" with him after my experiences with him in the editing of the article Seth Burkett (see also talk page there) where he only admitted necessary substantial content corrections after intervention via the Administrators Noticeboard, and then only most reluctantly. He put me through a most humiliating process and acted to my personal feelings thoroughly in a way a bully would behave. I certainly would not have liked to undergo a similar, to boot lengthy process in tis case.
 * - I instigated the change at the RSSSF website, as it is substantially easier than "discussing" things with aforemetioned author. RSSSF resepects people, even more so if they are knowledgeable.
 * - I hope, probably against reality, that the "merged" article will be better than the sum of the components, and maybe even a "real" article, not just another stub. If I were a 24/7 Wikipedian I'd have no problems providing 5,000 valid stubs in utterly leisurely - no hard pressure - 220 eight hour days. Probably far less, as I am capeable of automatisation.
 * Cheers, Oalexander (talk) 10:11, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I have absolutely no idea what prompted this, but if RSSSF made the change after you presented them with the info - I'm curious as to what source(s) you presented to them? Also GiantSnowman is correct, this would have been more easily performed as a merge request on the talk page. SportingFlyer  T · C  12:17, 23 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Merge to the other article for this person. Nomination appears to be false, with claim that the person doesn't exist. Nfitz (talk) 23:22, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - and this needs to be considered before closing. as SportingFlyer asked four days ago, what sources did you present to RSSSF to get them to change their article? GiantSnowman 16:30, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have presented to RSSSF a wad of 1930s-40s local newsprint that clearly identified Thomas/Tommy Duckworth, known for the miracle deeds he has done in Switzerland, as entraîneur of AS Saint-Etienne and LOU, plus the Club sportif des Terreaux. Come to think of it, if you look at a map, that's all relatively close together. And of-course, you can ask the question, why supermarket millionaire Guichard would hire a person with no past and future when he can hire star-coaches like Zoltan Vago, and Teddy Duckworth, who did not have any other jobs. That my story also proves sufficiently that "Ducky", as he was also called, did not return to his home country during the war, as some other historian claims, is a different issue. A minor error. It does not diminish his great book in any way.


 * As I said, I am not inclined to discuss evidence with you after my experiences which I have pointed out above. I might also point to the case of Reinhard Fabisch where you wiped facts notwithstanding of bona fide evidence (edits 20-22 Sept). I wonder, if you have got it in you, to add the titles Teddy Duckworth (who was called Thomas, Tommy, Ducky and Papa in France) has won with Servette? Or include the involvements of Hogan and Kürschener with Switzerland 1924. Those are kind of basic issues. For a person with always high demands on others you deliver poorly. If you can take more pride in your work, you probably wil depend less on diminishing others. Wikipedia is all about delivering content to users. Stubs which omit substantial facts about its subjects are a disservice to users. Cheers, Oalexander (talk) 16:05, 28 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.