Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Helm


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp  💬  14:59, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

William Helm

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails GNG does not appear to pass alternate criteria for WP:ANYBIO either
 * "1. The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times." -does not appear so.
 * "2. The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field." - being the largest "individual sheep farmer" restricted to within Fresno County, CA isn't even close to being historically significant in the field of animal husbandry.
 * "3. The person has an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography or similar publication." The things he does appear in are tailored to somewhat important local figures and it maybe of important to the local community and I don't believe they're anything even remotely similar to Dictionary of National Biography.

Moreover, it's a condensed copy-and-paste from a self-published family genealogy website. Since copyright release is in file, copyright isn't an issue, but the contents aren't really encyclopedic. copyvios report

It's essentially an article that was created off Wiki for what seems like a family memorial purposes than encyclopedic that has been imported into Wikipedia from that point of view through copyright release. From my assessment of the GNG and ANYBIO criteria, it doesn't serve encyclopedic purpose to have that article on Wikipedia. Graywalls (talk) 05:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Graywalls (talk) 05:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Graywalls (talk) 05:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - Based on WP:BASIC, significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, independent of the subject. People who meet the basic criteria may be considered notable. The following citations show that William Helm was notable:
 * 1) Secondary source with the "History of Fresno County California with Biographical Sketches".
 * 2) Secondary source with the "History of the State of California with Biographical Record".
 * 3) Secondary source with "The Valley's Legends & Legacies".
 * From the COI editor: --Greg Henderson (talk) 16:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment on triviality, on one end of the scale is a one line mention in the news paper and on the other end is an entire book written about them. From the WP:BASIC page, "A credible 200-page independent biography of a person that covers that person's life in detail is non-trivial, whereas a birth certificate or a 1-line listing on an election ballot form is not. Database sources such as Notable Names Database, Internet Movie Database and Internet Adult Film Database are not considered credible since they are, like many wikis, mass-edited with little oversight. Additionally, these databases have low, wide-sweeping generic standards of inclusion". So the range is very wide.

Going over those sources one by one The Valley's Legends & Legacies III is a 368 page book; and it is a volume of a series of six volumes that's devoted to the Central Valley of the US State of California. A page in a collection that with a narrow focus would be relatively trivial. These are books that talk about somewhat important people in that area, like people who were shop keepers, herders and like.

History of the State of California with Biographical Record "noteworthy among the pioneer settlers of Fresno county is William Helm, a respected and valued citizen of Fresno." about a page in a 1643 page book.

History of Fresno County California with Biographical Sketches 1 1/2 pages in a 2603 page book.

Somewhat of an importance in the local history, but keep in mind that even local city politicians aren't automatically notable for Wikipedia and I don't think this person's notability rises to a level of importance of having their own stand alone article. On the level of interest, I am seeing a daily average of 3 over the last five years; with the all time high daily view occurring as a result of the AfD. Graywalls (talk) 17:13, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * So, if I were to use an encyclopedia to look up notable sheep farmers in California, shouldn't I be able to find William Helm? There is even a city named after him. BTW, since 2015, there has been 5,615 pageviews! --Greg Henderson (talk) 17:26, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No more so than being able to find the name of biggest potato grower in the State of Idaho that was an individual in 1900s. There is indeed a lot of articles that shouldn't have been put on Wikipedia in the first place. If you happen to find others exist, there's good chance those don't meet notability standards and you're free to nominate them for AfD as well. Graywalls (talk) 18:03, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It appears that you have a differrent interpretation of WP:BASIC. To me, significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources is what has been cited for William Helm. It will be interesting to see what other Keep/Delete votes we get. --Greg Henderson (talk) 18:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Graywalls (talk) 18:46, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep. Subject appears notable enough. An independently published page on someone is a page on them whether it's half of a two-page pamphlet or 1/10,000 of a multi-volume work. His obituary in The Fresno Morning Republican was also quite substantial, running two columns and covering much the same ground. BD2412  T 19:49, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep a prominent early pioneer with some fairly extensive coverage in local and state histories. With the exception of the Family Search and Find-a-grave references, this article doesn't seem to be based on genealogical research, and looks fine for the most part. Curiocurio (talk) 21:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep The secondary sources (books and obituary) constitute WP:SIGCOV satisfying WP:BASIC. 24.151.56.107 (talk) 15:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.