Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Willy Monfret


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Black Kite (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Willy Monfret

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There is no indication that this person meets Wikipedia notability guidelines for musicians. No claim of any notability at all. —    Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 05:00, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  05:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:20, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:20, 2 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep: Hello, Willy Monfret is not only a musician but also a model, actor and the ambassador of Guadeloupe Islands. I checked the guidelines and he has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network. He had a guestmix in a Japanese radioshow. Could you tell me if this is enough? And maybe how I can solve the problem? User:Rosaenv  —Preceding undated comment added 13:58, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Reply: If you can find any sources for it, it _may_ be enough, depending on the source. Bjelleklang -  talk 14:32, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Reply: I agree with Bjelleklang. If you provide citations to reliable sources to support these claims of notability, that could be enough. —     Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 14:49, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * A tourism "ambassador" is not the same thing as the diplomatic kind. The diplomatic kind is the only kind that's potentially notable enough to be in Wikipedia because of the "ambassadorship" itself — the tourism kind might imply other notability, in the sense that the tourism board isn't likely to ask someone who isn't already at least somewhat famous, but it doesn't confer notability. (And even the diplomatic kind still has to be sourceable as far more than just existing to qualify for an article.) How you could solve the problem is by adding better sources that pass the rules necessary to get him past WP:GNG (i.e. real, substantive coverage of him in reliable sources — not blog entries, not press releases, and on and so forth.) As I explain in depth below, all but one of the sources you've added so far fail one or more of our criteria for good sources. Bearcat (talk) 16:55, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 01:46, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * 
 * 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger One ping only 11:48, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * 


 * Note: Sent messages to all non-bot editors of this article stating that the article has been relisted and inviting comment. —    Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 14:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: I was actually waiting for someone to reply the questions I've asked earlier. See above. User:Rosaenv —Preceding undated comment added 14:22, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Reply There has been one answer to your questions today. I will add more now. —     Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 14:49, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete; non-notable actor/model/musician. Will reconsider if User:Rosaenv can find sources to verify claim above. Bjelleklang -  talk 14:32, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Guadeloupean-French Supermodel Willy Monfret Says “Let Me Show You My Islands”, He is an ambassador for the tourist board. Sportfan5000 (talk) 14:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * So in other words; they are paying him to be the guy everyone sees in the ads, at various events and so on. That job by itself does not make him notable, and I don't think that article announcing the start of a new ad campaign is either. Bjelleklang -  talk 17:06, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Except that's a press release by the tourism board itself, and thus a primary source that cannot properly demonstrate his notability. Bearcat (talk) 17:13, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This answers the question as to why someone presented him as an ambassador. He was one but as part of his modeling work. He became a spokesperson for the tourism board is a more NPOV way of looking at it. Sportfan5000 (talk) 18:48, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. these are clean-up issues, plenty of reliable sources to work with. Sportfan5000 (talk) 14:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete non-notable as actor, non-notable as musician, non-notable as model and not an ambassador as claimed in the article. It still looks like promo. Number of Google hits remarkably low, even with all the social media included. The Banner talk 15:18, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * He is an ambassador, but only for the tourism board. i think he does meet GNG when his various careers are added up. Sportfan5000 (talk) 15:20, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The article gives the suggestion that he is a diplomat as ambassador, while he is nothing more than a goodwill ambassador/sign board for a group of islands. The Banner talk 15:27, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * In this case "ambassador" simply means paid spokesmodel. It does not necessarily add to his notability. —    Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 15:32, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * He remains notable as a model and DJ, although he's too new to pass the musician guideline. He certainly passes GNG. Sportfan5000 (talk) 18:48, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: Like almost everybody else, what I'm not seeing here is good sources. Going through them, #1 is a Blogspot blog (unreliable source); #2 is an article about somebody else which merely contains one single solitary mention of Monfret's name (not coverage of him); #3 is an "everybody working in this field gets a page" database like IMDB (potentially a valid external link, but not a reference that can demonstrate notability since, again, everybody who fits the criteria at all gets a page); #4 is an article written by him (self-published source) in a publication that fails to pass our RS rules in the first place; #5 is a YouTube video; #6 sources a fact about the Minaj video but does not mention Monfret at all (thus failing to be about him); #7 mentions him only in the context of an events calendar (thus failing to be substantial coverage); #8 is an unreliable source that contains only a single mention of his name; #9 is the only substantive source in the entire set (though I had to leaf through it to find the content, as the link was to the back cover of the issue rather than directly to the actual article about him); and #10 is a press release by the tourist board itself. So we've got one quality source here, but one quality source isn't enough to get a person past WP:GNG (which requires multiple sources.) If the sources were there, I'd be comfortable saying keep — but they're not.
 * As always, it bears remembering that an AFD discussion is not a permanent ban on the topic ever having a Wikipedia article — we have plenty of articles on here where a bad, poorly sourced early version got deleted, but then a later version was allowed to stay because it made a better demonstration of the topic's notability and/or sourceability. Deletion doesn't mean he can never have an article, it just means this article isn't good enough — if someone can create a better article about him in the future, with better sourcing than this, that version would be allowed to stand. But this version is a delete, I'm sorry to say. Bearcat (talk) 16:55, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete No evidence of notability. Claims to "ambassador" title appear to be in reference to a minor non-diplomatic position. Sources fail to establish any claim to WP:N. As with previous posters I am open to reconsideration if WP:RS sources can be found that make a viable claim for N. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Ambassador situation has already been explained and addressed. Sportfan5000 (talk) 18:48, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep: The references provided may not be overwhelmingly definite, but still they are there for scrutiny and to my mind, clear notability. the editors did somewhat a poor job in the way they presented the article, but still it is quite comprehensive compared to many other articles I've seen. And kudos and my appreciation mainly to user colleague Rosaenv for trying real hard and collecting all this evidence about his work. I am improving the article as we go along, and with great pleasure if I might add, as I am part of Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron. So this is right in my territory (so to speak) as an article. By the way, I don't know why all the discussion is concentrating on him being a touristic ambassador. We all know he is a sort of spokesman, a sort of a pin-up boy, a pretty face, for great seashore and a life in plenty promise with great sexual overtones for needed tourists to come in. Clearly as a Guadeloupian, a very small nation entity, they would be proud of "their" Willy Monfret, a drop dead gorgeous model. The editor didn't claim he held any diplomatic position. Usually people from very small places like Willy Monfret will not have a flood of media newsbites as any even much smaller stature models from USA would get. This should be put on perspective. This is just a two line section in a page full of many diverse career aspects. This is the Guadeloupe island Tourist Board trailer for what its worth. What is not being discussed for example is his sporting career in the national team of France, juniors and taking part in international events as an athlete. His modeling career can speak for itself. He is known on a massive scale for being the main male act in the music video of Katy Perry called "Right Thru Me" (See long music video. My comment is just this appearance is home for notability for me. The video has got 48 million views. My personal comment is Oh my Goodness!. Please do read the detailed description in the Music video synopsis section. Of particular musical notability is his involvement in "Fux" by GLOWINTHEDARK and DJ Chuckie. "Fux" music. This version is quite well known in Europe music venues. See also reference on the GLOWINTHEDARK discography section on this track. As a model, he is building up as a veritable gay icon. See for example: Homorazzi, The Real Twins of NYC, We Heart It. I am not saying we use these sources from gay blogs, but isn't this indication of definit notability as well to be "added to" his notability elsewhere in many aspects? A clear indication of notability is his appearance in Dieux du stade: Le making of du calendrier 2004. This Dieux du stade has a huge following in Europe. In France, it is a veritable phenomenon annual event and has spearheaded as a shining role example for the "get naked for charity" trend by athletes and celebrities. Him appearing on Dieux du stade (The Gods of the stadium.. for those unaware of French) as early as 2004 is an additional indication of notability. And I am not exaggerating. See IMDb cast for appearances by great names on the calendar for a good cause. How about his acting in Love Bug in lead role being shown at Tribeca. Here the trailer by Ramazan Nanayev. This guy is written notable all over the article section after section - music, DJing, acting, modeling, sports, a vibrant personality with very iconic aspects to him. Let alone he is drop dead gorgeous. I mean... how do you have the heart?.. LOL In all fairness, keep and improve is what I say. werldwayd (talk) 22:09, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete nowhere near enough coverage in reliable sources. Lots of content, so as Werldwayd said the article is fairly comprehensive, but much of it is unreferenced. Fails WP:GNG. Jinkinson   talk to me  17:08, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe this has been addressed now. Sportfan5000 (talk) 18:43, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment, Article has been overhauled, and sources added, i think notability and referencing concerns, as well as accuracy in reporting, have been addressed. Sportfan5000 (talk) 18:43, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I invite that new responders take into consideration that many of the misgivings oroginally expressed have been adequately addressed, specially regarding references. AfDs are sometimes a good thing as they serve as an opportunity to improve and save articles. I feel this is one is exactly such a case. werldwayd (talk) 03:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, reviewed the article again but I keep my delete opinion standing as I am unconvinced. The Banner talk</i> 15:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Same here. I also get the impression that most sources seem to be interested in him for the music video, not for his own accomplishments. Bjelleklang -  talk 16:29, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I see that quite a few additional sources have been added, but I still don't see a noticeable improvement in the number of reliable sources; rather, I still see entirely too many citations to blogs and YouTube videos and IMDB, and not nearly enough to publications that actually pass our reliable sourcing rules. Bearcat (talk) 18:12, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Those video blogs, and other blogs, are generally direct interviews with the subject and are used to verify unexceptional claims, perhaps not the most idea sources, but certainly reliable ones. I think we have met GNG concern even if we can't prove this world-travelling DJ and model meet other guidelines. Sportfan5000 (talk) 18:43, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * As the editor who created the original listing I still have to say I am also still unconvinced. The new sources have the same reliability issues as the original sources.  Also, I would consider any site with a link that says "You too can publish yourself" (or words to that effect) to be, by definition, a primary source. —     Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 21:00, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * If it weren't for the world traveling to dj in various countries, and his profound modeling portfolio, also global, I might agree. But those sources remain acceptable for the uses here. Taken as a whole, I think it's far beyond most articles at the month mark, and at an acceptable level for an article that is starting out. I don't see us reporting anything exceptional without sourcing, and I feel it's a decent start of an article. Sportfan5000 (talk) 21:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Being a model who travels the world is not in and of itself in any way notable for an encyclopedia. Please read the notability guidelines more carefully.  Even if we assume for the sake of argument that all sources are reliable, which they are not, you still have not proven notability. —     Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 04:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. As a general rule I ignored radio and television sources, although Monfret was represented in both. If someone wants to add some of those interviews, at least a dozen of them, it would help. Sportfan5000 (talk) 21:29, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my friend, I think you don't understand what reliable sourcing is. In short: a source is considered reliable when it is an independent, third-party, prior-published source with good reputation. Social media like Facebook, Linkedin, IMDb, Vimeo en YouTube are not considered to be reliable sources. Interviews with the subject of an article are considered primary sources and are not considered valid sourced for determining notability. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 01:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * That's interesting, I see interviews being used on well sourced articles all the time. Especially when there is a preponderance of them. Sportfan5000 (talk) 10:36, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Published interviews can be used as sources for facts, they can not be used for for determining notability. So first prove notability, then use interviews for facts (but only when no third-party sources are available). <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 11:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Question - Is there a consensus yet? —    Bill W.     (Talk)  (Contrib)  — 14:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Delete - I'm not seeing too much notability here; not enough reliable sources, just press releases and the like. He's worked with some famous people, but that doesn't make HIM famous. --TeamPrenda (talk) 12:04, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.