Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Winkler breech loading parlor pistol


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect. If there is verified content worth merging it can be pulled from the page history. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Winkler breech loading parlor pistol

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I cannot find substantial RS coverage of this pistol. Zero refs. Tagged for that and for lack of notability for over 2 years. Epeefleche (talk) 05:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Firearms-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Wikipedia is not a directory or catalog of every product ever made. Even in comprehensive catalogs of pistols which have directory listings of small caliber "parlor pistols," I could not find this one listed. More than such a directory listing or passing reference would be needed, in any event, to satisfy WP:N. Edison (talk) 15:26, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - There seems to be numerous reliable sources to support an article on this topic. See, for example, THIS PAGE on the website of the Argonaut Museum of Sacramento, CA. Search for Winkler+Parlor+Pistol to find lots o' material. This is a handgun for which sufficient sourcing is available. Carrite (talk) 18:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Armbrust, B.Ed. Let's talk about my edits? 14:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment The recommended search string Winkler+Parlor+Pistol turns up lots of false positives (mentions of someone named Winkler in stories involving pistols) as well as websites copying Wikipedia. The "Argonaut Virtual Museum website" article is an anonymous post in what appears to be a Wikipedia-like site (not a bricks and mortar museum)  that various persons can edit anonymously. It fails as a reliable source to establish notability.  What reliable sources have significant coverage of the "Winkler parlor pistol" in general? Wikipedia does not generally attempt to have individual articles on every single artifact in every museum in the world. Edison (talk) 16:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak Keap perhaps merge into a new article concerning Gallery guns or Parlor pistols.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:39, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. As to the merge suggestion, are you referring only to merging that text which is referenced?  Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge might be too strong a word as the parent article would need to be created, first. I am actually surprised that neither has an article on here (gallery guns or parlor pistols), but after the article is created, this would certainly be listed as an example of a parlor pistol.  Gallery guns are still made, but not for the original purpose.  This type of indoor shooting gave rise to the shooting gallery and declined as bb guns and airguns became more popular (you could shoot in the house without the noise smoke and dangers of overpenetration).--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Understood. I was only sensitive to the phrase "merge", because per wp:CHALLENGED I don't think that any unreferenced text should be "merged".  I would have not problem with a "redirect", which may be what you are getting at, to a "to-be-created" article along the lines you suggest (which could be created during the pendency of this AfD).  I simply don't see sufficient notability for "keeping" this as a stand-alone.  Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:01, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Redirect would work as well. To be honest, I had never heard of this particular model before, but I have heard of the company that made them, Josef Winkler.  Which is a little surprising as they are more known for Safari type guns in large bores for shooting elephants when you're close enough to smell the peanuts, over/under shotguns and drillings.  I almost wonder if it is the same gunmaker as these types of pistols were disappearing from use when Winkler started making guns, unless it was a "retro" sort of model.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 21:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   18:38, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * merge but not being knowledgable in the subject I can't say to just what--if Mike Searson is right, and I think he clearly knows what he's talking about, to a new article on the company.  DGG ( talk ) 08:25, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Merger strikes me as a decidedly poor option. It is all uncited.  It is all challenged.  Inline citations have not been provided.  There is no reason to foist the responsibility on merging article history, where the article history fails to satisfy wp:v.  Better certainly to redirect it.  And create any appropriate text (meeting wp:v) at the target page.  As luck would have it, a redirect target page is being created now.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:30, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Gallery gun. No evidence of notability, and I don't see anywhere to merge.  Not much value as a redirect, as its an unlikely search term, but redirects are cheap.-- Kubigula (talk) 16:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.