Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Winning Jah (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗ plicit  04:00, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Winning Jah
Previous AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

the topic of this article is fully promotional, it Fails Wikipedia policy and Notability ; the topic of this article has been deleted via deletion disscussion several times most recently 2021 , NO evidence of notability , the sources are in conection with the musicians  Samat lib (talk) 09:15, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2021 November 20.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 09:38, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions Samat lib (talk) 10:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. ''' Samat lib (talk) 10:15, 20 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete G4: The article Winning Jah (Nigeria King of Reggae) was salted. It has been deleted by two AfD discussions. Salt all combinations of this article name.  Fails WP:NMUSICIAN  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 13:11, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * On 31 July you and . Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 15:39, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I admit to having been incorrect @Curb Safe Charmer. Thank you for drawing my attention to it. I have made errors before and I am certain I will do so again Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 15:49, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete yet again and scorch the earth for paid promoters. Read the previous AfDs and you will see that this musician keeps popping up again and again, even after being salted at least once. If Admins can see who was behind the previous deleted versions, ban them from WP if they are still screwing around. As for the musician, the situation has not changed since his last AfD in early 2021. His only achievements are self-promotion and getting his PR puff pieces reprinted at unreliable websites. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 14:19, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment In this AN discussion - the admin that applied the salt - encouraged  to create a new draft, and subsequently  felt it was appropriate to accept that draft, being able as an admin to do so even though it was salted. I think, therefore, that G4 isn't appropriate in this case and we should take the article on its merits. A quick search resulted in finding substantial coverage in a reliable source:  so I will see what else I can find. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 15:19, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Update: nothing else found. Got bored of looking. Moving on. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:40, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The academic article in International Journal of Research in Humanities and Social Studies could be considered original research that is unsuitable for Wikipedia. That's because it only uses sources that are about large genres and geographic regions, and everything about Winning Jah is original and clearly based on the author's personal opinions. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 04:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep A national honour award + his work is the subject of an academic paper + a platinum album = obviously notable. Promotional content is not by itself a valid reason to delete - AFD is not cleanup. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:40, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * See above and below for other opinions on the reliability of that award and academic paper. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 04:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * @Doomsdayer520 I was actually referring to the Order of the Niger, which appears to have real status. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:24, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The Order of the Niger article here at Wikipedia does not list Winning Jah (or his given name Kingsley Eno Osagie) as a winner. That article uses a source that lists the winners from the year that Winning Jah apparently won it, and he is not listed there either. The only sources stating that he won the award are the very same unreliable promo sites that have been shot down in this and all previous AfDs on the musician. And even if he did win it I don't think it passes the criterion for "major award" at WP:NMUSICBIO #8, because hardly any of its many "winners" receive any media coverage for doing so. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 15:31, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment for those evaluating the significance of the awards in establishing notability for a winner of one of them: As prestigious as it sounds, "Africa Grammy Awards" is the (self-appropriated?) nickname of the Obaland Royal Awards, which are issued by the Obaland Academy which, four years ago, was preparing to give out 60,000 of these awards, according to this article. As pan-African as it sounds, its focal point is apparently Edo State in Nigeria (indeed, awards include "Most played in Benin city", "Most downloaded Reggae in Benin City", "Best Edo state/Diaspora Philanthropist", "Jamaica most played artist in Edo State", and "Best song of King Ewuare II"), and I gather the event was held only once, in 2018, per this source. Largoplazo (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The article says that Winning Jah has "received over 300 awards", which is not good news about the quality of those awards. Even Quincy Jones has fewer, and his awards happen to be real. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (TALK&#124;CONTRIBS) 04:08, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I found sources from reliable Nigerian print newspapers such as Leadership (newspaper), news source like Nairaland and on Vanguard (Nigeria) referring to the Order of the Niger he won. Leadership Newspaper wrote an article on Obaland Awards winners, including Winning Jah followed by Independent Nigeria article also stated his Obaland Awards alongside other reliable news source like GhanaWeb . About his multi- instrumentalist and being the CEO of a record company was written by The Guardian (Nigeria), Premium Times and more. The selected articles can be used to ref the article's lead and the Awards references. I suggest a high ranking editor to edit the article.NOTICE501 (talk) 21:08, 22 November 2021 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: NOTICE501 (talk • contribs)  is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.


 * For what it's worth, see WP:NGRS: The Nigeria WikiProject finds Nairaland generally unreliable for Nigeria-related information.
 * You cite Leaderhip, but Leadership is also the source I gave above that tells us that these Obaland Awards, themselves not notable, were distributed to 60,000 people, so having received one cannot be construed as a mark of notability; if you disagree that this award was doled out so liberally as stated in that source, then you're finding Leadership to be an unreliable source.
 * Finally, this archive of this dead link to Economic Confidential claims to be the full list of government awards, including Order of the Niger, for 2010 and 2011, and Winning Jah isn't on it. Largoplazo (talk) 00:23, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Largoplazo (talk)  Economic Confidential  is a mere online blog with no Government affiliation or Nigerian authorities endorsement, based in Abuja, probably they couldn't state the long list of all recipients who received Order of the Niger, if a national print news like Leadership Newspaper, Vanguard newspaper  published his winnings on a print newspaper to over 200 million Nigerian inhabitants and state authorities didn't question it or flashed as a fake news, means he actually received one. The second source from a Wordpress blog (Ogala)  also referred getting his source from Economic Confidential blog, We can't compare private blogs to a National print newspaper. For example Victor Uwaifo, Yinka Ayefele and others weren't listed in this poor unreliable blogs, but they all received this recognitions.NOTICE501 (talk) 02:34, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, Economic Confidential listed 365 award recipients, and Vanguard reported 364 so, allowing the possibility of a typo or miscount, either
 * you continue to suspect that the Economic Confidential post lists only a subset of all recipients of the award, which means that there are more than 365 of them, in which case you're questioning the reliability of Vanguard, one of the publications you're relying on for the OON claim;
 * you trust Vanguard, in which case your suggestion that there were more recipients than were included the Economic Confidential post is erroneous, or
 * Economic Confidential swapped non-recipients for recipients in its list so it could end up with the correct number in the list, but, regardless of what we might generally feel about the reliability of this source, why in the world would they go out of their way to do that?
 * Since you've affirmed your trust in Leadership, that means you must trust them to be correct that the Obaland Awards were given to 60,000 people in one year, which completely eliminates any possibility of considering those awards to contribute to a finding of notability.
 * The bottom line is that there are inconsistencies among sources, but those inconsistencies either raise doubt about some of the information found in the sources you say are reliable. or else undermine their value in establishing Winning Jah's notability. Largoplazo (talk) 14:59, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Funny, Business News reported two numbers, 335 and 355. It looks like a lot of typos going around. But all of these numbers are less than the 365 actually on the list that you've disputed, so your conjecture that that list is incomplete still seems flawed. By the way, I was trying to understand why the Economic Confidential said its list covered both 2010 and 2011. Business News explains that "The SGF [sic] [Secretary to the Federal Government] explained that the award ceremony could not hold in 2010 because of preparations for the 2011 general elections. Although the combined awards shot up the total number of awardees for this year, the number wasn’t extraordinary as government also had two years to plan." Largoplazo (talk) 15:20, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment obaland awards is a crappy awards,  NOT relevant and NOT recognised in Nigeria ,   an english language wikipedia article about obaland awards was deleted in  aprail 2018   as a NON-Notable awards  via article deletion process  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Obaland_Awards  . Samat lib (talk) 19:21, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * While it may be the case that the awards are not notable, the deletion discussion closed as speedy delete because the Obaland Awards article had been created by a blocked or banned user, not through consensus that the awards were not notable. Yours was the only delete !vote. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:26, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete It seems 's sole purpose is to promote Winning Jah and his associates (Please see Draft:Daddy Rich Iyasere, Draft:Richard Iyasere, Winning Jah (Nigeria King of Reggae) then Winning Jah, Draft:Enorecords LLC, and Enorecords LLC). Author failed to respond paid editing notice posted on their talk page User talk:NOTICE501. They are extensively editing for Winning Jah and also keeping an eye on his article. Please see their edit history. Unexplained removal of maintenance tags indicate their purpose of editing Wikipedia.

If an author fails to comply with paid editing policies, their COI/paid created pages are usually deleted. Also, it seems the author has added award section to bypass WP:MUSICBIO. (please see current revision vs old revision). Author has admitted that Winning Jah hasn't/has never received 300 uncertain/non-notable awards. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 19:22, 25 November 2021 (UTC)


 * CommentTheBirdsShedTears Like i have always declared in good faith here on Wikipedia that i don't have any affiliations or interest in COI/paid articles. I received a notice on my users page to participate in this  Debate about an article i created, which i honored the notification, does that proof a COI? no editor would like to be a failure as article created got nomination for deletion. I needed to join Wikipedians in searching sources, i am fully aware that Wikipedia is not a promotional page for artists or companies. NOTICE501 (talk) 08:50, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. While I was willing to give this article and its author the benefit of the doubt that willingness faded today when I saw the date in the Obaland article was modified today. It is surely not a coincidence and leads me to believe NOTICE501 is in contact with the journalist Lucky Omosigho, trying to beef up the source to support the claims in the article. Oh look! NOTICE501 created a draft about this person! Earlier I had been going through Draft:2020 APCN Humanitarian Awards, Draft:Enorecords LLC, Evi Edna Ogholi, Draft:Jossy Joe, Veronica Rudian, King Wadada - these are performers related to Winning Jah's company Enorecords, and the awards are mentioned in both the Winning Jah and Evi Edna Ogholi articles, trying to give weight to an award that Jah's own video of the award ceremony shows the tiny number of attendees compared to the number of recipients - something fishy here. The judge of Jah's 2020 award is signed to his record label?? I note NOTICE501's edits today, removing Order of the Niger from the lead, removing my citation needed tag from the platinum record claim, and reducing '300 awards' down to 'multiple awards' which can of course mean any number of awards more than one. The word 'bogus' comes to mind. I am sure this is COI and UPE, and I question the accuracy of most of the claims in the article. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 20:19, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The author in question is also the creator of Obaland Magazine edited by Lucky Omosigho. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 21:04, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Well! The link you provided to "Jah's own video of the award ceremony" now displays, in lieu of a video, the statement "This video isn't available anymore". Largoplazo (talk) 00:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

,,  NOTICE501 (talk) 02:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Additional commentary on the presented sources might be helpful in ascertaining a clear consensus on whether the topic meets relevant notability guidelines. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Mhawk10 (talk) 06:43, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * CommentTheBirdsShedTears I am a Christian and i also have a positive way of reasoning. I normally ask myself (if my son gathers wrong information from Wikipedia for his school activities and fails his exams, who get's the blame? I guess Wikipedia article contributors, including me certainly. Anytime i am writing an article, my 16 years old son is always seated close to me. I haven't contacted any of the persons connected to this articles. If Obaland Magazine editors updated their website recently, has nothing to do with my created article. If anyone keeps suspecting my edit, that means a whole heartbreak to me, I am not a journalist or a social media personality than gathering information from Google to write short articles on Wikipedia if necessary, because I'm yet to qualify as a senior editor i keep looking forward to write the article without COI ideas. I swear to my living God to have nothing in common with all this names or News media you have mentioned. Everyone on this forum has their opinion, i will prefer being called a Satan to COI editor or Liar. My edits was based on various notice  received on the article and i wanted to write it better. Other drafts were yet to be completed for submission, I haven't got that whole time to do so, due to my family issues and my hospital work to handle, where i get my monthly stipends. I prefer not getting heart problem from a voluntary work on Wikipedia . I am not in anyway connected to this articles subjects, nobody paid a dollar or penny for the stress of this articles in question. It won't be correct accepting a COI to please  anybody when payments of any kind wasn't involved, wrong. I wasn't the first editor to write about Winning Jah on Wikipedia.org, his article had been written on other Wikipedia articles by other Admins and users, which also could be translated to English ,
 * Delete per DOOMSDAYER520 and Curb Safe Charmer. Also repeated recreation after AfD and SALT is WP:GAMENAME.-KH-1 (talk) 11:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Curb Safe Charmer. I would also suggest starting a discussion on COIN. – The Grid  ( talk )  15:56, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Curb Safe Charmer. It's probably best to SALT the name space as well. Best, GPL93 (talk) 21:02, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt — I’m literally tired of seeing this article re-incarnate. Furthermore the creator of the article should be taken to ANI as a WP:NOTHERE SPA. Celestina007 (talk) 02:12, 1 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.